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This week in Bitcoin- 9-13-2019- Wacky financial world, negative rates, French Libra, Coinbase, ETH

October 7, 2019


Hello everyone this is adam meister the
bitcoinmeister the disrupt meister
welcome to this weekend bitcoin today is
September the 13th 2019 strong and
vietnamese daughter your wealth of
bitcoin having hype i’m confiscated all
offended by selling emotion
alright best guest in the space and of
course they’re here today vortex and g
have returned and this is the first time
they’ve been on the show together
because i bring you unique combos like
this okay we’re gonna jump right into
the the news of the day and it was news
of yesterday the european central bank
on thursday cut its interest rates 10
basis points to a record low of negative
0.5%
and will in november kick off a fresh
round of stimulus all right what’s this
mean g for big coin is the writing on
the wall the rain should europeans be
getting in the big coin
well i want to begin to bitcoin of
course but you know negative interest
rates are really interesting because
this is something that when you look on
the TV and you have these anchors
talking about it or when you read some
of the mainstream newspapers they’re
they’re kind of engaging in a process of
trying to mainstream negative interest
rates or making it seem like this is
something that’s completely natural and
expected but when you kind of read
between the lines of like the ECB’s
actual statements and you know consider
like economic policy for all of history
up until this point it’s obviously not
very mainstream and you’re seeing some
kind of cracks where you’ve got like
these you know big-time kind of
investors and show up on CNBC every week
and they’re like foaming at the mouth
like kramer in 2008 explaining why this
is insane so it’s kind of fun to watch
we’re not in a crisis or anything and
this isn’t the thing that’s gonna pop
the bubble but it’s just kind of another
example of central bank policy resulting
in kind of miss allocation and resources
and just to i spend some time trying to
about like how I would explain it and if
I actually understand negative interest
rates and I think the key thing that you
guys need to understand there’s
definitely two two key points so the
first is like why didn’t have interest
rates not make sense so generally if I’m
giving somebody a loan I’m doing it as a
basket of loans and I’m charging a
positive interest rate let’s say
something like five percent and the idea
is across a broad portfolio I’m getting
compensated five percent for the risk
that the borrower defaults and in fact
you know there’s if you’re charging
somebody one percent it’s almost not
worth it for you to take the risk of a
default right so low interest rates or
zero interest rates you kind of don’t
want to make the loan negative interest
rates where you’re giving somebody more
money and you’re not getting any money
back it’s just the most ridiculous thing
a rational actor would never let make
them loan for a negative interest rate
and then then you go into what’s driving
negative interest rates or negative
yields and it’s it’s like everything
else it’s about the price and it’s about
supply and demand and so the way to
think about the supply and demand
dynamics of these of these negative
yielding debt in Europe is the supply
side is who’s issuing this debt well who
issues really high quality debt Europe
there’s no european central bank issuing
bonds there is Germany and they have a
budget surplus they’re not going to be
issuing any new debt all the big like
high-quality corporate borrowers are ten
years into a bull cycle they’re probably
over levered as is they’re not gonna be
raising any new debt and all the
countries in the periphery are not
really in a position to be raising any
new debt so the supply of of like
high-quality debt is pretty fixed and
then you go to the demand side and what
you realize is there are a ton of these
buyers who are who are buying on
economically they’re not buying for
economic and rational reasons there’s
two there’s like three major parties so
one is the pension funds so pension
funds just like you and I have an asset
allocation of like 6040 stocks and bonds
they have their own asset allocations
which includes high-quality corporate
bonds and high-quality sovngarde bonds
and they haven’t adjusted for them like
they need to invest according to what
their asset allocation says and if the
bonds are yielding negative the bonds
are yielding negative so they’re on
economically buying and then you have
the bank
which like what you or I would call
saving or being conservative keeping
cash into balance sheet
the ECB regards at European Central Bank
regards as hoarding they want to
increase like bank loans and everything
else so if a bank has too much cash in
the balance sheet they start charging in
fees so the banks want to avoid those
excess reserve fees so they use that
cash and they park it somewhere really
safe which is countries like Germany or
high-quality corporate debt then the
third party’s of course the ECB which is
now gonna be just purchasing bonds in
the open market and there they’re not
paying attention to price so what’s
happening is interest rates which are
kind of like a benchmark for the rest of
the economy and me and you used to like
refinance your home as a it they all
they all kind of interact with each
other and this fundamental piece of the
economy is now like no longer reliable
signal of you know price no longer a
reliable signal of you know how much you
should be charged no longer a reliable
signal of risk and so what’s happening
is people like market participants
aren’t actually sure how to react they
have models that are based off
correlation but none of their historical
models have negative interest it’s just
it’s a wild and out of balance thing so
that’s kind of my take on it vortex I
don’t know if you have any take that UK
share yes so I mean you pretty much kind
of laid it out out there I think for
everybody right there I mean just to
recap I mean the ECB is relaunching QE
at twenty billion euros a month I mean
just only nine months after they ended
their last run and it’s still of course
negative interest rates I think they’re
gonna be a zero point for still but at
the same time look between brexit the
trade wars you know between US and China
Europe is sort of feeling the pain now
alright there’s I mean the whole world
is sort of feeling the pain but Europe
is definitely definitely feeling a
squeeze here that you know this game
will be ongoing until someone folds it’s
essentially right because people are
essentially in order to buy these bonds
people either believe in the government
or the believe in the central bank
that’s going to bail everybody out and
and as as he said nobody knows right as
jeet said nobody knows where this is
going to go we got the president united
states Sweeting – the central bank you
know lower rates lower rates uh
this is this is thick making think
making everybody think that it’s okay in
that we have no
inflation you know this is this is
definitely part of a longer longer term
goal of abandoned cash but but that
could be a different topic fundamentally
here the system is broken as ji outlined
here this is like an entirely
unprecedented situation this has never
happened in the history of global
finance before and really nobody knows
what to expect all we do know is that
fundamentally at this point the system
is is definitely broken there’s
definitely things wrong with it that
can’t continue very much longer into the
future and so somebody is going to
someone’s gonna have to call something’s
gonna have to fold both of you has said
a key point it is totally unprecedented
no one knows what it will bring so there
has to be a place of safety out there
and that’s why I bring this topic up how
does Bitcoin fit into all of this gee
yeah I think so the person who I’ve
started paying a lot of attention to in
terms of understanding like how debt
cycles work and particularly how like
countries deal with their debt is Ray
Dalio he’s got this great book called
big debt crises and he just he’s he’s
just done so much work he’s like a he’s
like a large hedge fund manager is one
of the largest hedge fund managers in
the world and he’s he’s famous for being
very rational and results-oriented and
you know in this book one of the things
that and he just kind of goes through
case study after case study of how do
countries react in different situations
one of the most striking parts of the
book is there are so many countries
where the central bankers aren’t aware
of what is the game theoretic best move
to make so they’re kind of they’re these
are the most educated people in that
country they’re educated and in the best
schools and everything else and even
they aren’t sure what the next move is
so historically you see them making the
wrong move all the time when you bring
up that Trump tweet we should be
developing our currency as well so like
central that’s it that’s like a tool
that people try to use that if you
devalue your currency it makes your
country more competitive if somebody’s
doing the cost-benefit analysis like
where do I wanna you know to start my
factory up they want to hire the
cheapest employees so they go to the
country that has devalued currency but
it’s like a tool to like spur economic
growth that way but all of this is it’s
taking place in the context of like a
pair
I’m shift that’s happening where there
is this old system and it looks like
there are some parts of this which are
kind of unsustainable and people are
recognizing that it’s unsustainable so
over the last five years you’ve seen
pension funds and these other people who
have like you know large endowments
focusing you know increasing their
allocation to stuff like private equity
so stuff like venture capital real
assets that’s all stuff that isn’t
mark-to-market in the market every day
because they don’t want exposure to that
they feel like that’s kind of like it’s
two up in the air and it’s not something
that is like kind of like reliable and
they don’t want it caught up in bubbles
so they’re focused on things like water
rights in California right that’s like
an asset class that they’re thinking
about because they they want to focus on
fundamentals so all of the smart money
is already making these moves to get
down to like the real economy and I
think individual investors are actually
making those moves too when you when you
look at what happened when they try to
raise rates and the market kind of fell
out from under everybody and everyone
went into a panic what’s happening there
is like what they teach you in school is
the efficient market hypothesis where
everyone is like a super rational actor
I think you got to take that with a
grain of salt because you can see like
what happens is nobody wants to be the
person who’s like the last person in
musical chairs right so nothing is
rational when you think you’re gonna
lose your entire investment you sell at
any price and I think that’s what you
saw happening when they try to raise
rates and the next time some event
happens that same rush to the exits is
going to happen and the thing that’s
kind of becoming increasingly clear is
that these central banks they’re kind of
running out of arrows in their quiver
like how many more how many more times
can they lower the interest rate at what
point do they lower it to like negative
five percent and people just give up as
this doesn’t make any sense anymore
they’re doing the QE now but how many
more tools they have they have like only
three or four more tools once you get
past QE and increase the QE even further
you can start helicoptering money into
people’s paychecks but after that the
tools are fairly limited and it seems
like they don’t understand when to put
press the brakes they don’t understand
when you got a crate a little bit of a
buffer and I think you know one of the
most interesting things that I saw out
of this was the amount of leaks that
came out of this meeting so it looks
like apparently like half of the cabinet
the ECB was just an open revolt and
we’ve never seen that kind of like you
know breaking of ranks before in the ECB
so when they were you know bullying
Greece in 2011-2012 they were like
unbreakable right and now what you’re
seeing is people are kind of haven’t you
know they’re feeling comfortable enough
to voice different opinions they don’t
feel that current status quo is
sustainable all right I want to go back
to one thing that you said earlier and
that the three major players and all of
this was there the three divisions what
was the first one again pension funds
and endowments okay day and you said
they their allocations are just locked
in there they have to get 45% bonds or
something like that right yeah and look
so that one of the things is I don’t
have I don’t have a breakdown of like
who was buying what debt but based off
of the reading that I’ve done I
understand it’s pension funds and if
their pension if they’re like pension
funds in the United States and
everywhere else they have an asset
allocation and they’re not going to
shift from audacity okay what why aren’t
when are they gonna shift though there’s
gonna have to be a point when they wake
up and shift in the big pool that that’s
what I’m saying that’s what I’m looking
at here yeah yeah yeah so look I think
the so the way that so first of all
there’s two things so first of all these
people who are making decisions at
pensions and endowments are like the the
most conservative people you can imagine
so to get hired for that job and to kind
of keep your job and to you know have a
career down the line you don’t
necessarily want to be the first person
like you know rushing open the gates to
try to jump into the risky asset classes
so this is a naturally very conservative
group however we’ve already seen the
first signs of the kind of rush for big
rush to get coin so David Swensen who is
the kind of thought leader in the space
he’s the person who made Gail’s
endowment from like really below average
to like literally the the kind of
endowment that you know sovereign
nations and sovereign wealth funds look
to him for advice he’s invested in at
least one of a 16 ZZZ crypto funds and I
think at least one other crypto hedge
fund so through that he’s starting to
closer to Bitcoin and I think some of
these other pension funds are now
starting to dip their toes either
through existing like a 16z for example
andreessen horowitz is like the premier
venture capital firm so the the top tier
pensions that are in a 16 z now and have
you know got an allocation in their
crypto fund are the top tier endowments
so if they get a good return out of that
fund and they start seeing those results
early on they’re gonna look for other
players and then other pension funds who
aren’t able to allocate to end recent
are gonna be looking around for other
top tier funds that they can invest in I
think it’s gonna come in through the
funds first and then it’s gonna come
into direct allocations to Bitcoin right
now I think in order to increase
adoption a lot of these hedge funds are
framing things in terms of traditional
investments where everything is already
like vetted and legitimate and passed
the SEC in this case you know these
investments are pretty you know they’re
pretty untested so like outside of
Bitcoin and one or two others that you
could say have been you know thoroughly
vetted for security and everything else
there’s very few these investments that
are that you would feel comfortable
recommending to an endowment and again
the people that are very conservative so
they’re not going to the first person to
make to make a jump but I think as soon
as the you know soon as point-based IPOs
and you see some of those returns
showing up in existing pension funds
there’s just going to be a rush towards
getting more getting more exposure to
crypto very interesting coinbase
name-drop there we’ll get to them and
second town that like button people all
right vortex let’s go back to you real
quick
and any more thoughts on how this all
ties into to Bitcoin you mentioned in
Trump specifically a negative interest
rates that we might end up with here
yeah it’s pretty crazy because I mean
even jeet said like the most educated
people you know have no idea what’s
going on right now they they have no
idea what to expect and no idea actually
what he’s even going on I mean if you
look at some of the some of the biggest
economists some of the biggest people in
finance they really just don’t have any
idea what’s going on and what what to
expect so I think that’s really
important to understand and especially
you know if their understanding
bitcoin is going to be limited as well
there is Simon first so for example
Simon Dixon is one of probably one of
one of the people I respect most in
traditional finance and you know he’s
straight up tells you in his video is
that these people that simply don’t know
what’s actually going on even if the
people at the ECB the people in these
meetings sometimes don’t understand
what’s going on so just important to
understand that look um the the the big
people the big guys the the governments
of central banks they do not have it all
figured out right now if we are in
unprecedented times and nobody really
knows what’s gonna happen in this this
ongoing global paradigm shift that we’re
experiencing right now so I think um but
I do think people are some people are
beginning to recognize like she also
said some people are really beginning to
recognize some of the parts of the
current financial system are
unsustainable especially like you know
like GTA the when when do people get
actually give up is it three percent is
it four percent is at five percent
I don’t know but with each percent more
and more people start to see the cracks
and I think that’s really important
because eventually the jig will be up
and you know we have so many uh like
like GT said also there’s just not a
whole lot of things for institutional
investors to really sink their teeth
into right now I mean they’re because
people are scared and we have people
like van X solid X right there they’re
going to do pilots a little bit of a
Bitcoin offering called the the BtoB TF
right which is not an ETF for directly
for retail investors but at B TF which
is more for the institutional investor
it’s called the broker traded fund and I
think they’re doing that right just to
prove that the need T of product is
viable that they can handle this stuff
right that this is actually possible
that people want this if there is the
man so we see steps like this moving
forward little steps like this and of
course pomp Anthony pompano has a fund I
believe maybe G you know the name of it
that recently had some pension funds
invest in it as well you get more yep so
these little steps these little steps
with that we see them being made a
little bit by a little bit and with each
one more people understand and more
people are recognizing Bitcoin aim as a
brand as all sorts of things and really
most importantly we’re starting to see
almost most importantly we’re starting
to see Bitcoin being talked about as a
safe haven right on CNBC and on by all
these huge economists when it’s only ten
years into the game when Bitcoin is only
ten years old we’re already talking
about it as a possible safe haven so I
think people really are starting to get
a little bit where they need to get it
and we just
to wait and see what happens all right
let’s look what now we’re talking about
Europe let’s uh move on to something
else is going on in Europe and I’ll
start with vortex on this France will
halt the development of Facebook’s plan
libre cryptocurrency in Europe because
it threatens the monetary sovereignty of
governments well that’s what France says
do you think France will be able to do
that your thoughts on that vortex yeah
so I think this just echoes back this is
beautiful for me I mean everything about
Libre has been just beautiful for me
because it’s just one thing after
another proving why Bitcoin why we need
BIC win why big winnings is why Bitcoin
still exists one thing after another and
of course one of these things is
permissionless innovation right so there
there is nobody that can technically
stop Bitcoin there isn’t at least as we
understand it today there’s nobody that
can go out there and just say get
Bitcoin on the phone and be like look
guys look we don’t like what you’re
doing we’re gonna have to sorry we’re
gonna have to kick you out of our
country there’s no ability for a country
to do that but there isn’t ability to
stop Libre right there is an ability to
say no you know what we’re not gonna not
gonna have Libre here they can do that
very easily but that’s the whole thing
that the but really BIC one brings to
the table here is this permissionless
innovation is this open borderless
decentralized permissionless innovation
type of network here that anybody can
participate in so for me this is just
highlighting more and more of why
bitcoin is important and maybe even why
all coins aren’t so important because
guys look if Libra can be kicked out of
a country what do you think they can do
to some Oakland you know like a theorem
or some some other al-quwain like pesos
or whatever you insert a name that you
want to pick right doesn’t matter they
can absolutely absolutely stop that
because these because most of these all
coins are are in fact centralized
Bitcoin being the only actual you
centralized public blockchain at scale
these other coins can absolutely be
thwarted and say and one day France can
wake up and be like you know what we’re
not gonna we’re not a big fan of Eos and
we’re not gonna let that where I can let
our businesses participate in that in
that particular blockchain and so this
is what’s possible with with these types
of centralized solutions and I think
it’s very very just again highlighting
the importance of Bitcoin and why
Bitcoin can’t be stopped
do you think there the Facebook
that this is just a threat to Facebook
maybe they want a little compensation or
a lot some compromise from Facebook that
they’ll be able they’ll be able to get
through you know I think I personally
it’s all a game right yes all the game
right Adam I mean this is all a game I
mean you know we saw what happened to
Julian Assange right but when Ecuador
gave up June Assange in exchange for a
four billion dollar stimulus right from
the central bank so it’s all a game we
see what’s what’s going on and it’s just
a matter of you know who’s gonna still
want to play their game and who’s gonna
want to finally just give up and say you
know what we’re gonna go play this other
game over here called Bitcoin work where
it’s a lot easier for the average person
to get into where we can have
predictable monetary policy I think I
think it highlights that all right your
thoughts on France and Facebook yeah I
think the they were they were quoting
the French finance minister and the
thing that really stuck out to me was I
mean he just straight-up said we’re not
gonna see our monetary national
sovereignty to like one entity that just
happens to have two billion users and
it’s kind of interesting because the way
that he frames it is that they’re it’s
like it’s like confrontational so I
think that Libre may have made a mistake
and you know since they are centralized
there the benefit of that should be that
they’re hiring their ton of like
marketing and regulatory people and then
visiting every single major country and
then speaking with those people ahead of
time making them aware before any public
announcements instead you hear well you
know X Y Z billion-dollar US American
tech company Facebook which is
responsible for data privacy issues
which Europeans are very sensitive about
its launching a currency and its gonna
take over every other currency so you
can imagine the French finance ministers
just sitting there like not on my watch
so it’s it’s kind of a you know in
addition to obviously having like a ton
of their their citizens like switching
to Libre and a crisis that’s like a risk
for France obviously and for all the
other EU countries but I think it’s more
like you know when somebody is trying to
establish a government like there are
certain sources of authority minting
your own coin is literally like let the
most old-school way you can imagine to
to establish
you’re like a sovereign entity and
you’re a sovereign country so it’s like
they’re they’re going to France and
taking away or competing with them on
their own soil so I can imagine the
French finance minister is probably a
little bit nationalistic and just let
light into him that way yeah yeah it’s
it’s it’s a brave new world we’re
entering where corporations will be able
to come compete on the turf of these
countries with what they used to have a
monopoly on so I close you oh yes
what’s crazy Adam is that like their
Facebook was supposed to thwart this
whole problem right by having a basket
of currencies so everybody can play
everybody’s a part of Facebook and and
of course they had the absolute opposite
effect because because even if they were
to go to just with the US dollar that
was backing the thing it would still not
get any more support so they tried to
get a basket of currencies to get more
support and that still didn’t help
because they’re people I think are wise
to the fact that what you said a
sovereign entity is recognizable most by
their currency right yeah they just
added a Singapore a dollar to their
basket I think I read who knows what
gimmick they’ll come up with next or if
they’ll be able to bribe France we we
shall see I still think that if it does
get off the ground I think it would be
good for Bitcoin because it’ll get
people in the crypto currency and then
some of them will find out what the real
thing is now sorry I was just gonna say
here’s the other here’s the other take
on this Facebook is trying to be like
the next generation of Ted right yes
it’s mothers for large MOTC traders you
know going in between exchanges and then
between each other and going back and
forth between countries Libre is
basically saying we want to do together
but we want to do it in a smaller scale
and you know across even more people so
the government can’t track or the
government’s can’t track it so that just
feels pretty controversial and like you
know you’d like he pointed out it’s not
permissionless you know if you’re
playing the game where you have to if
you’re if you’re playing the game of
dealing with governments then you should
do it the right way
otherwise you’re they’re kind of making
promises to their customers that by not
to get to keep all right let’s let’s
move on to another controversy
your entity coinbase coinbase may soon
get into the business of initial
exchange offerings vortex yeah it’s it’s
kind of crazy I mean so look everybody’s
aware at this point of the failure of AI
cos that was theorems main use case at
the time they keep changing their use
case of course when it’s supposed to be
but and for 2017 it was the ICO machine
and I think everybody’s aware at this
point now that that icos was was a
bubble it was absolutely a bubble there
was a whole lot of projects that did a
whole lot of harm to the space you know
we’re over 99% of them failed and over
99% of them were scams and so we have we
have we have actual evidence to know
that that a particular idea of
investment it’s not such a great idea
but then somebody was like you know what
finance was like you know we’re gonna
sort of we’re gonna we’re gonna do i
SEOs again but this time it’ll be
through us and it’ll be all fine
everybody will be ok everybody can
participate and it’ll be fine what
happened there of course still more
scamming scamming skimming projects I
mean the scam used of all projects you
can think of has gone has now gone
through finance in an IEE oh and it has
we see the same result almost all of
them are scams almost all of them don’t
do anything very very very few are
actual honest technology trying to
contribute to the space so most of it is
just pumped and dumped if you look back
at the stats of the ICO as you can see
that all of them are underwater and
almost all of them have spent like 80%
of their balance sheet like it’s it’s
pretty crazy she’s trying to stay afloat
try to stay survive so I don’t expect
these IPOs to be a whole lot different I
think everybody at some point every
exchange is gonna launch an i/o it’s
just again more profit for them until
regulations catch up once again and stop
them from doing that so it takes a
couple years people are gonna create you
know people gonna find new opportunities
that’s not gonna stop especially now in
this permissionless kind of space that
is crypto you really can just sort of
start doing all sorts of things I mean
if you look at what by dan state they
just launched a token and they moved to
this country and then move to this
country and you know then they launched
iOS and and now they’re launching an
exchange in the US and just the end of
the end of September so it’s you can in
this type of world people are going to
absolutely uh try to move fast and break
things and that’s of course
a big difference between sort of the
Bitcoin ecosystem and the rest of the
ecosystem but the rest the ecosystem
absolutely all day long will try to move
face move fast and break things try to
find that opportunity and until
regulation catches up so this is just I
think another example of that and I
would say be again very wary guys of
these ayios they’re really no different
than the icos
and we see diminishing returns on them
already the ayios are already starting
to have diminishing returns so the I the
i’il bubble might be even drying up
faster than the ICO what’s this say
about coinbase that they want to
diversify into this thing of all things
I think I think it split the company and
half really at this point but they’re
they’ve recently in the last year or two
made this huge company why decision to
make this focus make all coins a huge
focus they really wanted to diversify
into all these different all coin types
of solutions and things for customers
and what we’ve seen again is you know
there is no liquidity on these tokens
and on these coins coin based is
supporting tokens that literally have
2000 dollars of trading volume in 24
hours just complete nonsense just just
unethical to the point if I’m not to the
point of it being unethical that there’s
so more liquidity on these tokens and so
the coin base I think it’s gonna
continue to down this particular road
for at least another six months to a
year as that is what they’ve really been
going headstrong in for the past couple
years but you know although I think of
the smart people of coin bases left long
ago long before this this new this new
business strategy of diversification
into all coins we’ve seen what happens
to the all coins you know they
definitely over time continue to lose
value when it comes to Bitcoin when it
comes when its measured in Bitcoin so a
really coin base is going to still go
down this down down this road they’re
going to lose money they’re going to
lose their customers money just like
they have been for the past couple years
with their business decisions and this
is gonna be no different I mean I think
it’s relevant that coin base is the
punching bag of the space they’ve made
just incorrect step wrong step after
wrong except after wrong step and this
is just yet another I think step in the
wrong direction for coinbase gee haha
with all this being said how can they
pull off an IPO I do what do you think
about them going in this direction it’s
gonna be interesting to see if they can
pull off an IPO in the all coin bare
market like that would be funny but I
don’t think they’re gonna be that stupid
I think they’re going to
wait for Bitcoin you know to be at least
50 KS jumpstart another alkaline market
and they’ll probably launch around them
but again guys see these alkaline
markets if you look over time they just
they just continuously crash back down
to this overall medium and that lying
guys is gonna be broken one day you know
one day when when the world figures
finally figures out that most of the
stuff isn’t viable for consumer grade
for institutional great for any grade of
consumer or of customer I think that the
the world is going to wake up it’s gonna
take some time but it’s but eventually
the world’s going to wake up that most
of these all coins just aren’t worth
billions and billions of dollars
especially when they have less than tens
of thousands of dollars in 24-hour
trading so I you know that’s the key
point that I think a lot of people miss
like you know when you think about like
fundamental value and what is actually
driving you know it’s easy to talk and
say that you know hey this you you guys
have probably seen those charts where it
compares the features and the different
coins but the way to think about like
something that can compete with with
currencies and and be a store value is
not like simply copying and pasting the
code it’s one you got to either write
something that’s original like Satoshi
Nakamoto did and then he’s able to
capture the book of attention and the
people that are writing on Bitcoin
aren’t necessarily like writing code for
economic reasons some of these people
are like they’re you know their motive
they’re motivated they’re intrinsically
motivated by like the fun of doing it
and the joy that they get from working
on like the best system like a lot like
a lot of other open-source software like
their maintained you know they’ll be
billions of users or hundreds of
millions of users and you know it turns
out there’s like two guys and a cat that
are maintaining the whole system but
those guys are obsessed with that system
and they’re never gonna quit so those
you know hundreds of millions of users
could be there or they could not be
there the developers will still be there
and I think around Bitcoin you know
there’s cool as this group of developers
this group of holders this group of
people who may be putting a content like
I can imagine vortex putting out content
no matter what I don’t think he’s gonna
just stop it’s the Bitcoin price goes to
1,000 it’s it’s gonna be game on even
more
I’ll join I said I’m done I’m out so so
that’s the type of thing when you get
people doing stuff for uh neck anomic
reason
and from a place that doesn’t come from
an expected value calculation but it
comes from like you know what this is
the right thing to do or this is just
what I’m interested in doing like that’s
when you get a beautiful system like
that’s how you get something like
Wikipedia going when you just get people
who are all kind of coordinating
together and so that’s why I love
everything that you guys are saying
about alt coins because as much as like
I like some of the people who are doing
these out coins and I like the ideas and
some of the projects the problem is that
they’re not very serious about it
because they’re always launching to make
you know you can just see they always
embed themselves a pre mine or some kind
of feature so that they get paid and it
like what they’re doing is taking their
chips off the table and that’s just a
signal for you as an investor in the
crypto space that they may not be as
serious isn’t um sorry I was gonna jump
into coinbase yeah please please yes
yeah the only other thing I would say
about coin basis I think a couple of
shows ago I brought up coin base versus
Finance and how this was going to be
like the you know Tyson versus oddly
type of situation Finance has rolled up
liquidity outside of the United States
they have every single ounce coin and
they have all these like cool little
features that are adding all the time
and coin base has the US market as a
reminder the US market is worth far more
like your college student in the United
States with their lunch money has more
money sometimes then somebody who could
be like you know like a post college
employee in other countries so each
customer in the United States is worth
so much more and customers in the other
areas but because finance has a tight
feedback loop with all their customers
and their their customers are constantly
giving them feedback and they’re they’re
figuring out problems for their
customers they have all these cool
features and stuff that people love so
the EOS like I agree with you I have not
invested in any of these ayios but the
their launch pad which is like the
they’re trying to make like a Y
Combinator for crypto they’re attracting
all the the smart teams in Asia to come
and work for them and then they’re
attracting all the attention from people
who are interested in investing and and
so they’re just kind of doing the right
thing so I don’t agree with like you
know I wouldn’t invest but they’re
they’re doing what is correct to do from
the business perspective to gain
attention and
like win the game and the game is
ultimately winning the US market it’s
the most valuable so you know now
they’ve cut out all the US users they’re
launching new extremes in the US and so
you can imagine the people in point base
for thinking about like what is their
differentiator historically it’s been
their the only reliable exchange the
United States well guess what for the
last two years
anybody who’s wanted to invest in in
Alta Plains they’ve generally used
finance they’re familiar with it and
they kind of trust it
maybe that’s the point of a coin base
but in general a lot of folks trust
finance and in in cz they know that like
he just kind of has like a very positive
customer service mindset where they’re
like refunding money all the time if
they make mistakes and all that stuff so
now coinbase
is probably trying to fill the gaps of
where they can’t compete with finance
effectively one that’s alt coins so you
know they added – recently I doubt that
they would have added – if finance was
mentoring the United States and long
with some of the other loans that
they’ve added and then it looks like
they’re also thinking about getting into
security token offerings and ayios and
they’ve bought some of these broker
dealers the people who have broker
dealer licenses which allows them to
sell securities they’re just kind of
positioning themselves so that six
months from now they’re not gonna be
caught off guard when Finance starts
doing more iOS but they do their first
ie on the United States for example so I
think that they need to fill in the gaps
so that when I’m making a choice between
where do i you know park my money and
all my trading like where do i want to
trade do i want to trade in plain base
where i can trade like for else coins 5l
coins or do i want to go to finance
where i have like the entire gamut about
boys oh yeah that’s continue sorry yeah
okay well so like cuz we don’t we don’t
think in those terms right I mean we’re
pretty conservative guys investing in
Bitcoin and we know that we’re gonna win
long-term but day to day the traders I
think are what makes a lot of the profit
for these guys for the exchanges so
their kid into the traders and I think
that you know winning over the traders
and getting the correct mindset is
what’s gonna win and there’s there’s
some interesting moves that crankin has
made as well in this space to try to
compete they’ve got I think it’s called
a coin switch crypto watch it’s called
so
there’s a it’s kind of like a dashboard
or an overlay or a Bloomberg terminal
for trading ayios there’s this here’s
the service called coin Fox that’s K oh
I n fo x and this is launched by a
couple of dudes sitting in India they
want to trade they want to trade out
coins so they started setting up they
started giving tools to normal people so
they could you know get into the get
into the ayios at the right price in
finance and so people love that and so
they started teaming up with by Nance
and you know they launched an events
together and I think that crankin seeing
that is like how do we get involved in
that and they’ve launched a competing
product now it looks like crypto watch
and also Finance launched futures now
creating is launching futures like
they’re all trying to like fill in the
gap of what they’re missing somehow so
that’s the kind of big theme that I see
oh wow you impulsive traders you’re
fueling a war between these these
organizations strong hand yunnan traders
don’t be tempted by all these fancy k
words or whatever that way it starts
with a k’ spelled in such a trend it’s
both sq you AR but let’s we’re on the
topic of all coins aetherium spin on
both you guys tweet about aetherium
sometimes vortex what’s the latest
what’s the latest with aetherium
they’re still I have no idea all I know
is that they’re still working on the
theorem 2.0 they’re supposed to launch
that version in January but I think that
just recently got delayed as well back
to I don’t even think they have a date
on that actually at this point but I am
the wrong guy to ask about a theorem I
can tell you that it’s been pretty fun
watching Eric Wall try to sink a guess
node that’s been pretty hilarious
I was a Cather perry forget what he’s
running now no no it’s a parody he was a
Eric Wallace trying to sing a parody
note I took him 25 days and several
crashes and several freezes before he
actually got it but he actually got it
synced as of today the journey is now
over he actually got it synced 25 days
it was one heck of a journey but again
guys
this is this is where aetherium is right
now in 2019 what do you what how long is
it gonna take to sink anode and in just
five years from now maybe even just
three years from now right when they
have like what two minute blocks or
something ridiculous
it’s absolutely insanity over there so
of course they’re trying to restart this
thing from scratch and the theorem 2.0
and of course we have the leader of a
theorem of italic even saying things
like you know if they’re in 1.0 now that
there was never any flipping there was
never any plan to flip in Bitcoin there
was never any plan to be a world
computer no just a scrappy little
project by a made by a couple of
different developers and it’s like guys
they certainly didn’t market it like
that for the past few years so that was
was pretty interesting to have a quote
like that from vitalic but you know it’s
it’s just these alkaloids they just fuel
the speculation this is why all these
exchanges exist this is why all these I
yellow some I CEOs exist the traders and
the speculation and you know and then
that’s fine that’s always going to be a
part of markets and especially a part of
Bitcoin because that is you know what
drove Bitcoin a lot and still drives
Bitcoin in these days even though we
have actually actual use case scenarios
we have Bitcoin ATMs everywhere we have
Lightning Network you know we have
people actually using this stuff for for
buying things with BTC paste server and
things like that so and of course we
have the financialization of Bitcoin
with project with products on Wall
Street I like these options and futures
and things that backed is launching so
you know it’s it’s you really have to
compare the Qin and theorem every once
in a while just to sort of keep your
sanity too because it because people
pump a theorem still to this day like
crazy there are there are tweet there
are people on twitter out there that are
tweeting almost every day the Biff
theorem is money that a theorem is
digital gold there at this point I think
if theorem is trying to take every
single one of bitcoins memes I think the
latest one is stacking the gwe I is like
stacking SATs what if they’re one of the
stable coins right it’s like stacking
says sure guys stacking stable coins
definitely like stacking sets all day
long absolutely so you know it not to be
honest again I’m not going to you know
accomplish exactly what’s going on over
there I because again Bitcoin just takes
so much of my time there’s so many
things happening in Bitcoin that it’s
really hard for me to pay attention to
other chains but definitely this stuff
comes across my my Twitter sphere and
and my timeline and so I definitely
tweet some of these things
like somebody actually attempting to try
to sink an aetherium node that adventure
was very very very interesting and I
encourage everybody to check out that
tweet and find out what it’s like
actually like to work on a theorem when
you’re trying to work on a theorem
without any other central players in
there without any other third parties
without any other any other person in
your way and it’s really difficult at
this point it’s it’s on there impossible
and I think in the next couple years
it’s going to be really really
impossible which is why of course
they’re starting this aetherium 2.0 type
of thing but guys if you if if I tweeted
this out I’m like have any one of your
engineers and one of your companies if
anybody is part of a company have any
one of your engineers take a look at any
one of these roadmaps and any one of
these design documents if they’re going
to fall over laughing it’s it’s absolute
absurdity some of the things that
they’re trying to do and I’m all for
experimentation and that’s great there’s
gonna be all sorts of interesting things
that comes out of a theorem at some
point but yeah it really for the most
part I can’t pay a whole lot attention
to it alright new you have something to
say about it as a year again follow
these both these dudes G and vortex they
are linked to below G your your thoughts
on a theorem do you have a lot of
developers they do have conferences
there’s a big one going on and Tel Aviv
soon people are building stuff on it
what’s going on yeah I think so so let
me comment first on something of or text
n which is incredibly important so you
know there is a significant amount of
sneering and kind of looking down on
statements like sync your own full note
or you know any time somebody brings
that up there’s always somebody who’s
like a smart aleck you know they’re
probably like a journalist or they have
a blue checkmark and they’ll explain why
well what are you gonna do you know if
the government seizes your good clinch
will note the world never like nothing
is ever that extreme all that matters is
that I can buy a raspberry pie for $35
and I can see my full node very quickly
and easily and there’s like it’s not
very complicated like I’ve done it in a
couple times now and explain to people
how to do it it’s not like it is it is
you know it’s not something that my
grandma could do but it is something
that any reasonable a college educated
or high school educated person can sync
up and what that does is it allows
whoever has that node to validate the
state of the blockchain
so if so if we have 1 million people who
are validating and in Cabal data
transactions that are coming into them
that’s 1 million people who agree on the
state of what’s going on
whereas for youth from if you have only
like 6 companies that can run a node and
I’m exaggerating I know there’s probably
more nodes and 6 but it reduced hardly
12 yeah it reduces the validator set so
it means that there’s less people who
are doing the validating so if you have
certain all the other million users of
each room would be depending on those
six parties and that’s a trusted third
party which nick szabo writes about and
its exact situation that Yost was in in
China you know when you have 12 people
in a room it’s very it’s very easy for
them to start creating a cartel and
discriminating against the normal users
because they have all the power to
validate and the obstacles are too high
for normal people to set up their own
nodes so that is like a superpower that
Bitcoin has is that they just literally
your spam filter and Bitcoin needs to be
like through the roof because you don’t
want to be the person who’s adding on
junk and you don’t want to like fall
prey to whatever junk science people are
throwing out there like Bitcoin is fine
as it is and anybody who’s trying to you
know add on different features they’re
probably a scam and you should be
extremely suspect so that was one thing
the second thing was the memes so
interims the ethernet people have really
ramped up their meme game and I kind of
admire it because you know bitch teen
it’s be I don’t have space fella that he
has this Michael gold steam is his name
Michael Goldstein okay there you go he’s
one of the guys from the Nakamoto
Institute right so they had a talk in in
in a in a conference you sniff you just
type in michael goldstein meme or
something about how debate should happen
and it’s kind of funny because stuff
that he talks about that you through
people have actually started to adopt
and they’re much they have much stronger
kind of memes and arguments and they’re
they’re kind of playing around now so
instead of being like triggered by
anytime somebody brings up Ethan UM’s
like technical defects they kind of turn
it into a positive just like Bitcoin
people do when you explain like why is
there no adoption or something right
it’s like well you just gotta stay super
positive until the adoption happens and
so they’re trying to kind of play the
same game so they’re essentially like
copying and pasting a lot of the means
that Bitcoin people have used in to
and so it’s it’s getting harder to to
kind of pierce through that and then
that being said in terms of what’s
happening in each room there is like a
lot of activity the base layer is it’s
still not clear how 2.0 is gonna happen
so it’s extremely unstable but I think a
lot of what’s happening is the defy the
decentralize finance people are
launching different things and you know
we’ll see what we’ll see where it goes
like a lot of it seems like kind of
interesting but the problem is that it’s
it’s like there’s too many layers of
complexity and there’s too many layers
of things that were built in a week and
it’s not clear that they’re gonna last
kind of tests of time so there’s a lot
of experimentation going on hopefully
something successful happens with it you
know I root for die maker you know maker
doubt they’re stable coin die it seems
like they have the potential to like go
to a place that it doesn’t have crypto
adoption and don’t have other options
try it but they haven’t succeeded yet so
I wouldn’t recommend buying anything
other than Bitcoin but it’s kind of fun
to watch people do these experiments and
you know I think you know people are
trying the developers are trying the
people who are like in the trenches so
to speak are definitely trying but if
you built on an unstable base layer like
it’s not gonna amount to much so
hopefully we’ll just be prepared when
they want to start building on Bitcoin
vortex 70% Bitcoin dominance you you
mentioned earlier that eventually on the
all coins are just gonna well pop
downward do you see the dominance
increasing soon so I don’t like I really
hate this freaking metric you know I
really really do because obviously what
we’re trying to say here is that bitcoin
is should be measured against all of
these other chains whether they’re
tokens whether they’re not told it
whether they’re stable coins whether
they use proof of work or not whether
they’re proof of stake and of course
that to me is just kind of kind of
insanity but of course the metric it
still does get used because we need some
kind of measurement it’s a measure
Bitcoin against everything else and so
this is what what is used and it has
reached 70% dominance at this point
again many people have have predicted
this that was going to happen
eventually over time it’s just it’s
really a my opinion just a matter of
time so
we remember everything sort of history
rhymes that all the stuff sort of plays
out like it like over and over again so
you know we’re having some of these I
guess I guess get on blockchain Wars at
this point really big when one long time
ago but people are still trying to try
to take over Bitcoin or eBay sorry uh
take Bitcoin spot right and so they’re
still trying to still trying to come up
with these different ideas come up with
these different things and see if they
can take over Bitcoin but really what
we’ve seen time and time again is that
their value continues to be lost against
Bitcoin and so really at this point the
alts are never going to go away
completely of course I mean this is you
can’t just tell people to stop
programming that’s that’s not gonna
that’s not going to happen and of course
sometimes I catch flack for for not for
telling people that I’m not a
quote/unquote Bitcoin maximalist because
you know I do believe in experimentation
I do believe that not every single
person in the planet is a scammer
I just most and so that there are as
there are some people out there that do
want to do some good and do want to do
some experimentation simply don’t
understand that like the intricacies of
Bitcoin and the theorem and which one
they should work on because as this is
new stuff this is not this is not easy
this is this is new this has only been
around for a few years and of course the
world is really only understood about
it’s really only heard about Bitcoin
since 2013 really that’s when the world
sort of found out about it when they had
that that big boom up to 1,200 and so I
think that Oh like I said I think over
time people are going to realize this
more and more and again this stuff
really repeats if you look back into the
90s you can see these protocol Wars
tcp/ip vs. other protocols there was a
huge suite of protocols that the telecom
companies tried to come up with and
compete with tcp/ip compete with these
open-source protocols but of course the
open source went out because it was just
more accessible anybody and everybody
anywhere could build on it and that’s
what’s important this permissionless
innovation is innovation at the edges
and this is how you gain Network effects
is how you create networks that have
Network effects that can just at some
point become insurmountable for example
like like like tcp/ip itself I mean it
was at version 4 for so many many years
and even to this day it’s mostly version
4 ip’s out there vertice 5 peepers and 6
is very very very seldomly used and they
just started really building it into the
the operating systems the server
operating systems in the past couple of
years so this this this takes time
network effects are real and they do the
do take time they do become at some
point impossible to serve justice around
really so and that’s why that’s where
the theory comes in about you know
Bitcoin big the ossification effect of a
coin at some point being up not being
able to to really modify a layer one I
don’t know how much I believe in that
fully uh because we do have things like
soft works and we do have some pretty
clever developers but at the same time
this stuff has been is really repeated
over and over again and I think the
market continues to choose the open
source the permissionless way and at
this point Bitcoin is the only game in
town
Bitcoin is the only permissionless you
know decentralized blockchain at scale
and so I don’t it’s only a matter of
time before more and more people figure
this out all right gee yeah I’m all for
soft forts and people signaling you know
what the right thing to do is I think
the argument I think I’d like to
emphasize the scammer part because I
found it really helpful like you know if
you go into investing with the mindset
that you’re mostly looking at scams it’s
really helpful because it helps you like
dig a little bit deeper understand like
okay where is the scamming part what
it’s like you know that they’re trying
to get one over on you and so it’s
helpful to when you’re thinking
adversary about it to think about how
they’re gonna try to potentially get one
over on you so one of the things for
example that I think is kind of
controversial is the idea that you
increase Bitcoin privacy on the base
layer so not through mixers but through
whatever technology they’re planning to
use and it’s kind of funny because when
we look at the parallel in Z cache you
know you run into these situations where
Z cache has the best developers in zdk
snarks it’s you know the the shielded
addresses are actually shielded nobody’s
broken that yet but it’s not there’s a
section of Z cache which is not
transparent so it’s not clear how many Z
cache are in that shielded section and
then a few months ago I think there was
this there was this error or this flaw
where it turns out that somebody who
found that out could have exploited it
to create an unlimited amount of Z cache
in the shielded section so nobody else
would have been able to validate the the
total supply of Z cache the Bitcoin
anybody can validate is it sella visible
and the risk is that if you start
obscuring it too much to the
point that it’s hard to validate then
you run into the problem that Z cash has
where there was literally like two
engineers who caught it and so you need
to not only know programming not only
know like you know specific block chains
you need to be very very familiar with
ZK starts and then very very familiar
with this particular code base so these
types of attack vectors do exist
somebody could have exploited it and the
only people who caught it was one of two
people and you know what these are nice
people they’re very smart people and you
know I trust them but I don’t trust them
that much I don’t trust them to the
point that I’m gonna like you know
invest my life savings or I’m gonna you
know recommend other people invest their
life savings or use it as a base layer
if these fundamental types of errors pop
up and the only people who can validate
it are people who live you know in the
United States and we know their names
and addresses and everything else and so
some third party you could go and just
bribe them
quite simply right so all these attack
vectors exist when you have that
obscurity and then the thing that I like
about Bitcoin you know to some extent is
that you just don’t have it’s pretty
chill like I don’t need to think about
it with Zeke axe they’re making like in
addition to this shielded stuff they’re
also like doing these hardcore works all
the time
same thing with Manero Manero is is like
top tier next to bitcoin right but if if
they’re hard working every six months
that’s every single time they hard work
that’s another time they you as an
investor needs to be paying attention
where somebody could be you know
potentially introducing like flaws into
the protocol that they can later take
advantage of or where the developers
could be introducing a type of algorithm
that you know they’ve already got the a6
ready for they could have planned this
two years in advance right you just
never know how far in advance or what
types of games what type of level you’re
playing at I’m in blockchain or in
Bitcoin so that’s kind of my strong form
argument for no scammers or no scams or
everything is a scam all right
we have gotten we are at the end of the
show basically so it’s time to wrap it
up and bring up the subject matters that
you want to bring up anything that was
forgotten anything went a had it’s been
a blast vortex what do you have well uh
you know
did not a whole lot of stuff it was
actually relatively slow week but I
think it was some awesome stuff
happening in the privacy space in
Bitcoin really we’re in absolute bull
market for privacy when it comes to
Bitcoin there is so much technology that
is actually being worked on right now
and again not so much on that on the
base layer of my narrow style as the as
Jesus said but really uh we’re at the
transaction layer is where a lot of the
stuff is happening and so we have things
like the samurai whirlpools they’re just
continuously reaching new level time
highs of cycles every single month
steadily month over month I think they
hit over 380 cycles just in the first 12
days
month of September so a lot more people
using that that’s going to really great
more people running whirlpool servers so
that’s really great I’m gonna see more
and more of that we need to run
whirlpool servers we need to run ecash
servers and Charma me cache servers and
we will be enlightening notes and I
think we can scale Bitcoin to the planet
privacy uh privately so that’s can be
really cool and then we got a new wasabi
wallet of the release of version 1.1 7
they just released a brand new version
they continue to – to optimize the wall
over there and optimize everything over
there about that law about their coin
joints that they have over there so
that’s the wasabi wall is the wall that
allows you to do coin joins again more
privacy at the transactional layer they
have added a couple things like manual
transaction fee settings and some
Bitcoin URL support which is interesting
that’s pretty cool to see and so as a
web developer that’s that’s what’s
interesting to me and then of course and
you have treasurer introducing their
show me your backups which is pretty
awesome based on Shamir’s secret sharing
which i think is pretty interesting
because that allows you to really
securely split up your seed which is
pretty interesting because you could do
like a 2 of 3 on your seed but if
somebody gets that one they they’re
still screwed they can’t do anything
where a few just like maybe chop off
your seed and they’re like three pieces
like maybe somebody can guess the final
words right but when you’re doing a Chow
Miam or tell me when you’re doing a
Shamir actual secret sharing you have to
have at least two of those three you
can’t just have one so that’s that’s
pretty interesting to see again a
practical example this would be you know
a two of a two of three sort of backup
of your list so I think more and more
privacy stuff is really happening a bit
but I’m really excited about that I’m
trying to pay attention to it all but
there’s just just just so much and then
finally there is a big a lightning
conference that I really want to
make sure everybody knows about the
Lightning conference the world’s first
lightning conference
Elizabeth Stark of forces is going to be
a part of that lighting labs is over
there throwing this thing together
it is the Lightning conference calm and
that is being held in Berlin
October 19th and 20th highly recommend
anybody go over there and check that out
because I mean all the oh geez like to
brag about the first Bitcoin conference
that they went to you got trace you got
max right trace mayor Max Keiser some of
these people some of these really early
og people bragging about all the time I
was at that that first Bitcoin
conference but but guess what guys you
can have the chance to be at the world’s
first lightning conference this this
fall in Berlin so this October so check
that out I would go if I could I really
unfortunate that I have some other
things I have to do but man October 19
to 20 is if they would have only
announced that just a week later I could
have gone but but I recommend everybody
going on it really is gonna be awesome
guys and I think it’s there’s gonna be a
whole lot of buzz around lighting during
that time that’s gonna generate massive
amounts of buzz because guys there are
thousands if not tens of thousands if
not hundreds of thousands of people out
in the world right now working on
lightning projects because they
understand that this really is a
bitcoins best shot at scaling
transactions as layers above layer 1 so
I definitely check that out and I think
that’s all for me yeah but you forgot
one thing crypto chaos network of course
you can find out everything about me and
know everything I do over on my twitter
account at the one vortex all spelled
out at the one vortex and of course
crypto caste network is the YouTube
channel that I wrap that is my channel
where we have bitcoin news and
information out there all the time so
lots of content there the biggest show
we do is the Bitcoin news show that’s
every other Sunday our next episode will
be airing the next Sunday after this the
Sunday after this which I think it’s a
22nd so I look forward to that
dude you gotta get cheat on that show
man yeah gotta get cheat on that show
all right G you got to find a word here
what was uh what was left out what do
you have to say I’m you’re muted you’re
muted the most interesting thing I saw
on Twitter this past week was I think
this analysis that somebody had done on
on on batalik scoyne and they kind of
looked at well how much has he cashed
out and what’s he done it’s kind of
interesting to see that metallic whose
like one of the smartest people in this
space
underestimated how valuable
would be and sold the significant
portion of his holdings which were
already pre mind to earlier so I think
that’s an important lesson for all of us
because it’s kind of like I in addition
to crypto I’m also just interested in
investing more generally and there’s a
there’s an interesting pot there’s an
interesting podcast invest like the best
if you guys are interested in destiny
should check it out and one of the guys
there is like it like an OG investor in
Berkshire Hathaway and he was explaining
his biggest regrets and one of them was
a store that he bought that he had and
felt like it had like the you know the
value investing characteristics bought
it back in like 2000 and it went up 20%
and he sold it and then since he sold it
in 2000 it’s been a twenty bagger
so it’s gone it’s gone up 20 times and
every time he was thinking you should
get back in but then he thought like
look it’s too rich a price like I
already sold it for such a lower price I
should wait for the price to come down
and it never came down so you can
imagine the guy who was sitting there
when Bitcoin went from 900 to you know
eleven hundred or a thousand and it
broke that barrier thinking I’ll get it
when two below a thousand again and it
just hasn’t gone back down so not to
induce FOMO like obviously you know size
your positions and be responsible about
throwing all your money into it but I
think it’s important to think about the
long term because the biggest gains are
not going to come next week with a 20%
mean candle you’re gonna come ten or
twenty years down the line when Bitcoin
scales from being still kind of an early
adopter thing into being completely
mainstream so you know watching here in
that podcast and then seeing that
Twitter thread just kind of highlighted
that for me and I hope you guys will you
know fall that to that metallic analysis
that that thread can you send that to me
because I’ll I’ll link to it below yes
it was a big deal like I think it was
all like on the coin desk and stuff when
he saw I think he sold like 25 percent
it was like was it like four or five
dollars it was something really small
really ridiculous it was it was pretty
bad yeah I don’t know the numbers but I
just remember looking at it and thinking
like dude how could you like I believe
it was single digits you know it was it
was a it was just atrocious and the
funny thing was to like that’s part of
the problem is with all the
Souths coins like ether is a
particularly egregious example because
it’s so successful and you know you
think like there’s so many people
building either they should have done
the right thing in the beginning it
would have made it more legit but
there’s other examples like even Manero
those early guys in Manero Manero is
legitimate because they did all the
right things but when they were first
launching that coin they were the early
miners and they didn’t have the
foresight and the vision to see that
what it could become so they all sold
significant portions of their like
holdings very early so they sold for
cash because they like they didn’t see
that manera was gonna go to I think like
$90 or whatever it’s at they sold in in
a sense right so a lot of the people who
are oh geez you know that may not be the
person that you want to look look to for
investment balls Ricardo Ricardo I
remember Ricardo popping the champagne
on Twitter at like four dollars a coin
Lizzie I remember when it went from like
two to four dollars he died I mean it
done was a big deal it was it was 2016
memories oh geez okay dudes thank you
very much jeet and vortex great show
remember we do this show every Friday
this week in Bitcoin and then I do a
regular show the one Bitcoin show every
day Saturdays beyond Bitcoin show so
tune in every day new show every single
day disrupt meister comm you can see all
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shabbat shalom we will see you next week
and tomorrow bye bye everyone

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