JUSTINE UNDERHILL: Genesis really led the
way in terms of the over-the-counter market
for Bitcoin as well as alternative coins,
and then also is leading the way in terms
But before we get into all of that, how did
you yourself get into Bitcoin?
MICHAEL MORO: So I met Barry Silbert, the
founder of Digital Currency Group, when he
was at his first company called Second Market.
JUSTINE UNDERHILL: And Digital Currency Group
MICHAEL MORO: Correct.
And we are a wholly owned subsidiary, yes.
And so Barry– and I met him in 2008.
I had just finished seven years in investment
banking at Citigroup.
And Barry had created this company that could
and would eventually take advantage of the
oncoming financial crisis.
As more assets became illiquid, more assets
were being traded over second market, we just
really specialized in finding buyers and sellers
of illiquid financial assets.
And then Barry discovered Bitcoin himself,
I believe, in 2011.
JUSTINE UNDERHILL: Pretty early on.
MICHAEL MORO: Pretty early on he went down
the rabbit hole himself.
And I think he kind of took his time and went
through the skeptic to interested to convert
to evangelist phase during 2011.
And then in the office all throughout 2012,
he just constantly talked about Bitcoin.
And so one day we were like, what is it?
You got to explain it to us.
And he told us what it was.
He actually called it the biggest financial
opportunity he thought he’d seen his entire
JUSTINE UNDERHILL: And this is back in– MICHAEL
JUSTINE UNDERHILL: Wow.
MICHAEL MORO: And so we said, OK.
And we started studying it ourselves a little
And we opened up our trading operation in
The rest is history.
JUSTINE UNDERHILL: Were you skeptical at all
when you first started looking into Bitcoin
and when Barry started talking about it all
MICHAEL MORO: So back in 2012 when we first
started looking at it, I didn’t understand
it at all.
And sort of the Bitcoin 101 resources that
are available today did not exist seven years
A lot of it’s very technical code– 0s and
And it’s like, how does this apply to finance?
And we had a really, really difficult time
kind of getting our head around, how do you
hold something that you can’t hold?
So how do wallets work?
How do you buy anything with it?
And, honestly, the smartest thing that kind
of helped us get over the hurdle of learning
it was Barry was telling every employee at
Second Market at the time– he gave us two
Every employee got two Bitcoins.
And he said, OK, I want you to go and create
a Bitcoin wallet.
So go to this website, create a Bitcoin wallet,
and we will send you two Bitcoins to that
You have to do two things.
One, you have to keep one of them for an investment
And the other one, you have to find somewhere
on the internet to spend it.
And so we all went and created our addresses
and Bitcoin wallets.
And all right, don’t lose the private key,
because then you’ll lose your Bitcoins forever.
And so we did that whole thing.
Then all of us are– everyone’s googling how
to spend Bitcoin.
This is 2012, 2013.
JUSTINE UNDERHILL: Right.
MICHAEL MORO: And there’s really only like
a limited number of retailers globally that
was accepting Bitcoin at the time.
And so everyone ended up, like, spending their
Bitcoins at the same place.
JUSTINE UNDERHILL: Where did you spend yours?
MICHAEL MORO: So there was a winery in Australia
that actually accepted Bitcoin.
JUSTINE UNDERHILL: OK.
MICHAEL MORO: It is now the most expensive
case of wine I’ve ever purchased in today’s
But, yeah, so people bought, like, alpaca
socks and– JUSTINE UNDERHILL: All the random
MICHAEL MORO: All of the things that were
kind of available.
That was really what– OK, this makes sense.
The actual going through it, receiving it,
sending it, and keeping your private keys–
all of that really at least made Bitcoin tangible
So we were just kind of getting up the learning
JUSTINE UNDERHILL: So your expertise– I mean,
you come from a Wall Street background.
And then you were getting into illiquid market.
So Bitcoin kind of fits perfectly into that.
What was it like in the early days?
What would you say an OTC market for Bitcoin,
and how does that differ from something like
a traditional Wall Street market?
MICHAEL MORO: So what was really, really hard–
I came from asset-backed securities and background.
And so we were used to cash flows and assets.
Here comes Bitcoin that has nothing.
And then how do you value this thing?
How do we get our head around what’s a fair
price for what Bitcoin was?
So price discovery, which is still often cited
as a difficulty when it comes to Bitcoin was
much, much harder back in the day.
Because back then, you could really only trade
on two exchanges.
One was in Slovenia and the other the Mt.
Gox in Tokyo.
We really had nothing in the United States
to do this.
And how do you know that the price you’re
getting is actually the right price?
On the OTC side, unbelievably illiquid.
And so because we were trying to make a market
and so we needed a buyer and seller, the chances
of us having a buyer and a seller within the
same four-hour window was remote– at least
very early on.
And so we had to use some of our own balance
sheet, some of our own capital to make markets.
Otherwise, we’d never get a single kind of
And, in traditional markets, you have t plus-3
settlement kind of back in the day.
You had sort DTC sort of infrastructure to
help settle transactions.
None of this existed, and still doesn’t, frankly,
exist in cryptocurrency today.
So a lot of it was, how do we do this?
How do we settle this?
And, really, we just kind of made up our own
best practices as to what needs to happen.
And a lot of those we still follow today.
JUSTINE UNDERHILL: Wow.
So what is it like?
So is it somebody will call you up on the
And what types of clients do you have?
How does that exactly work?
MICHAEL MORO: So back in the day, a lot of
crypto anarchists– guys who wanted to stay
off the radar of the federal government, who
also had a very macro bearish view of the
world– central bank policies cannot possibly
last, debt levels are piling up.
And so we need a non-sovereign storer of value.
And on the buy side, this idea of Bitcoin
possibly going to zero, which still exists
today, was much more of a real possibility
And this idea of Bitcoin could go 100x or
it could go to zero– that very binary sort
of hit or miss outcome was really, really–
it fit the portfolio of Silicon Valley venture
Because they’re used to making bets across
a whole bunch of different companies that
might become zero or could become Facebook.
JUSTINE UNDERHILL: Yes.
MICHAEL MORO: And so this asymmetric risk
reward profile fit that perfectly.
So a lot of our buyers in the early day were
just that– were basically the Silicon Valley
venture capitalists and venture capital firms
that actually started to kind of take that
risk reward balance in Bitcoin.
Today, it’s a lot different.
A lot of the early, early guys may have at
least sold a portion or a majority of their
original kind of Bitcoin holdings.
And hopefully they’re retired and living a
good life somewhere around the world.
Our buy side is much more institutional–
much more sort of hedge fund, family office,
typically what you kind of see in some of
the other markets and less high net worth
While they still play and are still getting
involved, we’re seeing this a lot more from
a client mix perspective.
We’re seeing a lot more institutions.
JUSTINE UNDERHILL: Interesting.
Would you say that the size of the trades
itself has changed over the years?
MICHAEL MORO: Certainly.
As the buy side appetite has grown, and, frankly,
as the price of Bitcoin has grown, I think
that the average size of the transaction has
I think early on, we were probably doing,
I don’t even know, $100,000, $200,000 trades.
And then now we’re in the millions.
So certainly from an appetite perspective,
I think that that has certainly advanced as
JUSTINE UNDERHILL: In the early days– 2013–
how would you go about vetting your clients?
Was that a big hurdle that you faced?
MICHAEL MORO: Tremendous.
And so as I mentioned the early on, a lot
of the Bitcoin holders were the crypto anarchists.
And just this idea of AML KYC, that kind of
like ran against their whole ethos.
And the idea of giving up your photo ID, social
security number, whatever it was to get vetted
from Genesis, which is a broker dealer– we
have to do this.
JUSTINE UNDERHILL: Regulated.
MICHAEL MORO: We have to do this, otherwise
you can’t transact with us.
And so I think that was a hurdle for both
For us to get used to the idea that clients
didn’t want to be on board at AML KYC and
for them to learn that if they want to sell
big blocks and use Genesis, you have to go
through this process and trust us with your
We used to have back in the day people that
would show up at our office with a suitcase
full of cash.
JUSTINE UNDERHILL: Wow.
MICHAEL MORO: And say, I want to buy some
I’m not telling you who I am, but here’s my
proof of funds.
And they’d open up their briefcase and there’s
JUSTINE UNDERHILL: Wow.
MICHAEL MORO: Obviously, we’d have to kindly
turn away the customer and say, I’m sorry,
we cannot do cash transactions.
We would have to collect all your personal
information– all the background checks and
kind of things like that before you can transact
But that was really like a wake up call for
us as to what the world was kind of like back
in the day.
JUSTINE UNDERHILL: And now going back to our
timeline, so let’s say we’re now 2014.
Mt. Gox, as you mentioned, there is a pretty
big scandal and it collapsed.
How did that affect your business at the time
in terms of institutions wanting to trade
with you guys and getting into the market?
MICHAEL MORO: It’s funny.
I was telling someone, a friend of mine, a
story the other day just what this was like
in 2013, 2014 trying to pitch the institutions.
Say, hey, we’re trading this new thing.
You may not have heard of it.
It’s called Bitcoin.
And we were cold calling, emailing, trying
to get meetings.
And we would either get hung up on, no emails
would get returned.
And we used to actually try to go and meet
with some banks, and the banks would be like,
you guys, you belong in prison for what you’re
doing right now.
That was at least the public perception of
what Bitcoin represented at the time.
And it was really hard to not recognize some
of the negativity that was kind of happening
with the Silk Road and Mt. Gox kind of situation.
So went Mt. Gox happened, I remember we all
went to the office on a weekend.
And said, what do we do?
What do you think happens to the price of
Bitcoin in the Mt. Gox?
So all of us were like, it’s going back to
100, which was kind of right when we first
started trading– that was kind of right around
It’s going to go back to somewhere between
$50 and $100 and call it a day– or just go
This is the zero scenario.
This is when people lose trust.
This is when people say, OK, Bitcoin was a
fun experiment, but it’s going away.
And it didn’t happen.
And so for all of us who were already coming
up the learning curve and kind of the belief
curve of Bitcoin, when it didn’t go to zero,
when it didn’t go away, we’re like, all right.
There’s something really here given the resiliency.
That didn’t mean that institutions started
to take notice.
That still took a long time for the folks
to kind of come around.
But that’s why people who were hanging up
on us when Bitcoin was 100 is now buying Bitcoins
But that’s still part of the education process
on the institution side.
JUSTINE UNDERHILL: Do you think that ended
up slowing down institutional adoption of
MICHAEL MORO: Certainly, I think.
Because a lot of the headlines were not positive
back in the day, it was really difficult for
folks to kind of take the asset class seriously.
And two, because hedge funds are investing
third party money– they’re not investing
just their own money, they’re taking investor
And so there’s kind of this additional fiduciary
responsibility to not put their clients’ funds
into something that may not be legitimate.
And so it was really hard, I think, to kind
of make the case.
Even if they wanted to, to sell it to their
LPs– to say, hey, we should buy some Bitcoin
given all of the negative press that was kind
of happening at the time.
So, yeah, I do think that it’s certainly slowed
But, at the same time, I’m not sure that world
was ready for institutions.
I don’t know what would have happened if institutions
were like, all right, good, go.
And I think we would’ve had a whole host of
JUSTINE UNDERHILL: It might have been too
So then moving on to 2015, 2016 talking about
issues with legitimacy.
We start to see a bunch of new coins coming
on the market– a lot of alt coins.
How did that end up impacting your business
as well as whether institutions took notice?
And did that also scare them off because there
were a lot of illegitimate coins?
MICHAEL MORO: I think it certainly confused
We have Bitcoin, why do we need Ether?
And so, again, institutions and family offices
sort of came up the, I get Bitcoin, and then
here comes the Ethereum.
And it’s like, OK, what is this thing?
And then with Ethereum’s success came hundreds
and hundreds of other kind of coins that sort
of flooded the marketplace over the last few
And I think there was a ton of, OK, this is
too much and just noise, distraction.
And along kind of came with, is this a scam?
Is this a Ponzi deal?
Just kind of a grab your money and kind of
run sort of thing.
And so I think that it certainly slowed down
kind of the adoption and learning curve, as
opposed to just Bitcoin.
Keep it simple, just Bitcoin.
And it’s possible that investors would have
jumped in with both feet a little bit sooner
had it just been the case.
However, I think it also helped to broaden
the horizon of what digital currency could
Bitcoin is very narrow in kind of what it’s
designed to do, what it can do.
And here comes this idea of smart contracts.
And you’re like, oh, wait, I didn’t realize
you could do this.
And so I think it certainly opened up possibility
as to what cryptocurrency could enable in
JUSTINE UNDERHILL: So then how did you figure
out which coins were legitimate, which ones
you guys wanted to get into the OTC market
How did that process work?
MICHAEL MORO: Most of it’s reverse inquiry.
Most of it is these hedge funds calling us
and say, hey, we heard about this.
Can you guys source this for us?
And so we really do rely on our buy side investors
to sort of come to us and say, hey, we’re
interested in trading ABC or whatever it is.
Can you guys kind of make a market?
It’s not as easy to just kind of flip a switch
and start trading it.
Couple of things– one, some may have a native
blockchain that is different, which means
we have to have wallets that are a little
bit different and storage and things like
that may be a challenge.
And separately, because we’re a broker dealer,
we have to do our level of internal due diligence
to figure out whether or not something is
a security or not a security, which was sort
of the ICO mess that kind of happened in 2017
and parts of 2018.
But once we sort of check the boxes that we
need to kind of do internally, and as long
as investor demand is there, sure.
We’ll absolutely make a market and look to
JUSTINE UNDERHILL: Interesting.
So how many coins did you end up getting into?
MICHAEL MORO: So currently, I think we trade
about a dozen.
JUSTINE UNDERHILL: OK.
MICHAEL MORO: But many of them are sort of
offshoots of Bitcoin.
So the Bitcoin and Bitcoin Cash, or Ethereum
and Ethereum classic.
And so some of them are sort of forks of the
But it’s interesting– a lot of our buy side
guys are still, even 2019, getting comfortable
That’s still where they are.
And so we rarely do get requests for coin
number 30, 40, or 50 on the market cap table.
JUSTINE UNDERHILL: Do you notice differences
in terms of how the different coins trade?
I mean, you guys have so much information.
MICHAEL MORO: So, Bitcoin is the most liquid.
It’s the most heavily traded.
It’s been our number one traded coin almost
every month with the exception of probably
Bitcoin’s been number one.
And so that has the least slippage in terms
of price execution.
And as you move down the market cap table,
that’s where the liquidity discount and premium
really kind of come into account.
So where you can do a million dollar Bitcoin
transaction at a very tight spread, coin number
100– if we trade it, you might have to pay
a significant premium or a discount to try
to acquire the same dollar value.
JUSTINE UNDERHILL: So what do you see being
more important there in terms of where you
guys are able to make money?
Is it on some of these alt coins where you
do have a pretty big spread?
Or is it just on high volume Bitcoin transactions?
MICHAEL MORO: My guess is that because of
who we’re catering to, we’re much more likely
to make the money with the high market cap
If we service retail, we would 100% need to
be servicing a lot more tokens and a lot more
coins lower on the market cap table– and
take the bigger discounts and kind of the
But the discounts and premiums are there because
they’re difficult to hedge ourselves.
Then we have to turn around and try to locate–
and these coins, because of their illiquidity,
might be much more volatile than Bitcoin is.
So it’s just kind of the price you have to
pay, because the liquidity and the volatility
of the underlying asset class.
JUSTINE UNDERHILL: But do you end up getting
a sense of where resistance is, where support
is in terms of some of these coins?
Like for Bitcoin, do have a pretty clear idea,
this is not going below 5,000, 4,000, 3,000?
MICHAEL MORO: I’ve certainly made my share
of incorrect price predictions.
So I’m not going to tell that there are certainly
supports and resistance kind of levels.
I’ve always found that technicals work until
And so while we certainly don’t believe that
Bitcoin is going to zero, could Bitcoin have
gotten to under $2,000 last year?
Yeah, it absolutely could have.
But I’m also kind of careful to not cap the
price either, because I think whatever we
think, we’re typically wrong.
JUSTINE UNDERHILL: And then moving on from
2016 to 2017 and 2018, you guys actually started
to get into the lending business.
Could you talk a little bit about how that
idea came to be and where you are now with
MICHAEL MORO: So back in the day when we first
created the trading desk– when Genesis first
came about– we had purchased in 2012 a bunch
of Bitcoin that helped to seed the trading
And so we had bunch of excess Bitcoin sitting
on our balance sheet.
And we used to have companies that were basically
friends and family– companies that were a
part of the digital currency group’s venture
portfolio that would come to us and say, hey,
can we borrow some Bitcoin?
I know you guys have a bunch, can we just
And so in a really pilot friends and family
type of thing, we started lending out Bitcoin.
And this is probably 2014, 2015– much, much
And served as a favor, almost, to companies
who we were relatively kind of close to.
And then I would talk to Barry every now and
then about, hey, can we start a lending business?
Can we start a lending business?
And, to be honest, though, in 2014-2015, I
don’t know, again, if the market was ready.
Because this idea of borrowing to short is
a more institutional mindset.
We didn’t have a lot of institutional investors
kind of in play back then.
So while people would’ve lent us Bitcoin and
whatnot to lend so that they can earn interest,
I don’t know how strong, truly, the borrow
side in terms of demand would have been for
that side of the trade.
2017 changed all that.
So 2017, with the price of Bitcoin kind of
doing this– ultimately kind of hitting the
$19,000, $20,000, that really kind of brought
an influx of institutional investors that
typically use sophisticated trading strategies.
I’m a long-short equity fund manager, I need
the ability to borrow and kind of go short.
And so it was in early 2017, actually, when
I said with Barry and he was like, all right,
let’s do this.
And it took us about nine months to get our
thoughts together and hire some personnel.
And we said, OK, let’s launch.
So we launched Genesis Capital as an affiliate
of Genesis Trading in March of last year.
I wish I could tell you, again, that we knew
the bear market was coming.
From a timing perspective, it couldn’t have
been better for folks to take advantage of
a falling price environment and kind of get
the ability to borrow.
But it just so happened that we were ready
right at the time when the bear market ultimately
kind of happened.
JUSTINE UNDERHILL: So would you say it’s mostly
institutions looking to short or to hedge?
Or what is the market for lending like?
MICHAEL MORO: So it’s interesting.
I would bifurcate the lending market between
Bitcoin and everything else.
JUSTINE UNDERHILL: OK.
MICHAEL MORO: Bitcoin is about 2/3 to almost
3/4 of our loan portfolio today.
So it is still predominantly Bitcoin.
But no one is actually shorting Bitcoin.
So all of the borrows that are happening in
Bitcoin are not used for speculative shorting.
It’s either two things– one, no one shorts
Or people are taking advantage of the futures
product on the CME and sell kind of contracts
that way without actually shorting that spot
market to get short exposure.
But the demand for Bitcoin is actually a few
One, we get a lot of market makers that just
need to borrow Bitcoin.
Because, as we chatted earlier about working
with exchanges, you have to pre-fund.
You have to keep Bitcoin in all these exchanges
to kind of be able to trade with them.
And so they just need coins parked on these
exchanges so that you can trade.
You can either have bought all those coins
and take the price risk, or you could have
just taken out to borrow and just paid the
So we get a lot of folks that are trying to
just trade on the exchanges and kind of need
Two are arbitrage guys taking advantage of
different– not just exchange to exchange
arbitrage, but potentially the futures market.
When the spot market and the futures market
diverge, you actually have an arbitrage opportunity
And you may need to borrow Bitcoin to kind
of be able to take advantage of that arbitrage
The third bucket, which is more interesting,
is working capital.
We have companies in digital currency whose
working capital is actually denominated in
It’s not in dollars.
And so they actually come to us and say, we
want to expand our business.
But we need Bitcoin to be able to do it.
So it’s actually more of a business loan,
almost, as opposed to a Bitcoin.
It’s a commercial loan that I’m giving– JUSTINE
UNDERHILL: That’s a market I didn’t know existed.
MICHAEL MORO: Right?
And it took us a while for us to kind of identify
that that’s what this was.
But it’s not for speculative reasons.
It’s like somebody borrowing Apple’s stock
and then using Apple’s stock to grow their
It doesn’t make any sense, but it does in
And so we have a bunch of companies that are
coming to us for commercial lending to help
expand their business.
So that’s Bitcoin.
Everything else is speculation.
So people borrow Ethereum or Litecoin or whatnot
to take at least a short term view on negative
But that’s a short smaller portion of the
And then towards the end of last year, we
decided to experiment with lending out dollars.
So it’s the exact reverse.
When we make a Bitcoin loan, we’re taking
in dollars as collateral and making a Bitcoin
This is the actual reverse of people giving
us Bitcoin as collateral and they want dollars.
And they’ve started to kind of do this.
One, I’m sure the bear market didn’t help–
didn’t want to sell Bitcoin at a depressed
And two, they were like, hey, but if I sell,
I have to pay taxes, capital gains.
It’s not going to be a pretty tax bill for
And so can I give you $1 million worth of
Bitcoin and you give me a half a million dollar
And I’ll give it back to you in, whatever,
three weeks or four weeks, and you can give
me my Bitcoins back.
So it became the actual reverse of what we
And that has seen tremendous demand.
So that is now, next to Bitcoin, our number
two product is actually US dollars.
So that’s much bigger than Ether or Litecoin
on the borrow side.
JUSTINE UNDERHILL: So this loan business has
grown pretty dramatically over the past year.
How big is your book right now would you say?
MICHAEL MORO: I think as of yesterday, it
was about $340 million or so– loans outstanding.
JUSTINE UNDERHILL: Climbing up there.
So then, would you say that this is something
that’s likely to overtake the OTC side of
MICHAEL MORO: It’s funny– OTC trading is
It has great months and it has not so great
The lending business is much more of a fee
So you have the portfolio and it just earns
a spread over time.
So it’s actually a bit more stable and projectable.
And so as the portfolio naturally grows, I
do think that from an overall dollars in,
dollars out perspective, that the lending
business will become bigger on the trading.
However, if the bull market comes back on
the trading side of the business, yes.
You will absolutely see months in which trading
will crush the lending side of the business.
But the lending business is certainly helping
from a predictability, stability, to kind
of help smooth out the overall Genesis revenues.
JUSTINE UNDERHILL: Do you see the lending
side still doing well in a bull market, probably
because of the working capital aspect and
because of all these other aspects to it?
MICHAEL MORO: So I had this theory, like,
we did well in a bear market last year.
So what happens in a bull market?
And I said, yeah, I guess the short-sellers
But I’ve always believed that, one, I think
the working capital narrative I think is certainly
Two, I think that as the price grows in a
bull market and the crypto market cap pie
continues to grow, I feel like short interest
and kind of the borrow market is always going
to be a percentage of the bigger pie.
And as the pie grows, I have to imagine that
the borrow market is just going to grow correspondingly.
And I still think that we’re a tiny, tiny
fraction of the spot market– of kind of the
And so I think there is tremendous growth
potential on the lending side.
And as kind of the market cap kind of grows
in a bull market, I think the lending market
kind of grows with it.
JUSTINE UNDERHILL: What do you think institutions
want to see from the crypto space before they
get into it in a bigger way?
MICHAEL MORO: This is probably covered in
every single crypto conference, because for
years, we’ve been talking about this institutional
wall of money– whatever that meant.
It’s just about the kind of knock on the door
and bust down the walls and ultimately take
It’s a story and a theory that we still very,
very strongly believe will happen but really
hasn’t kind of taken a hold yet.
Now, a couple of years ago, things were much
more like AML KYC money laundering.
There’s concern, certainly, about what some
cryptocurrencies are kind of being used in
kind of the dark web and all of that.
Two, has always been custody– how do I safely
hold my Bitcoins?
How do I prevent getting hacked and all of
And then people talk about price manipulation.
How do I know that this is kind of a fair
and orderly market?
Insurance– what if my coins are hacked?
Is there available third party insurance to
kind of make me whole?
And then people still point to, hey, we need
an ETC or we need some kind of back office
settlement to help create efficiencies on
the back end on the settlement side.
JUSTINE UNDERHILL: And that’s actually an
interesting point, because that doesn’t really
I mean, in one way, you have coinbase, which
is sort of everything wrapped into one, whereas
you go to the stock market, you have the NYSE,
you have DTC, you have Bank of New York Mellon.
And that’s pretty much structured in a completely
MICHAEL MORO: It is.
And, to your point, it’s all bundled into
one on an exchange today.
JUSTINE UNDERHILL: For crypto.
MICHAEL MORO: For crypto.
And then on the OTC side, if you were to buy
Bitcoin from us, OK, oh you owe me dollars.
I owe you Bitcoins.
Somebody has to go first.
JUSTINE UNDERHILL: Yeah.
MICHAEL MORO: Right?
JUSTINE UNDERHILL: Yeah.
MICHAEL MORO: And so, as Genesis would say,
we always act second.
So you send me the dollars.
Once your dollars hit our bank account, Bitcoin
goes to what the Bitcoin address provided.
But that’s trust that you have to have in
Genesis to not just take your money and run.
JUSTINE UNDERHILL: Right.
MICHAEL MORO: Right?
But this idea of simultaneous settlement eventually
has to kind of come about where you sending
me dollars and me sending you Bitcoin happens
at the same time so that we’re not kind of
taking out a counterparty settlement risk.
And that’s something DTC would solve– a DTC
kind of equivalent.
But maybe smart contracts kind of solves that.
And so you actually don’t need an entity kind
of running that.
But that’s a missing infrastructure piece.
But why are institutions still not kind of
One is probably the lack of the ETF.
We still don’t have an SEC-approved exchange
traded fund here in the US.
And Barry, on behalf of grayscale, is trying
to make a lot of strides to get there.
But I think the commission has concerns about
market manipulation and whatnot that is sort
of preventing that.
But if it’s become really, really easy to
just buy Bitcoin just like you’re buying gold
through the GLD, maybe that kind of helps
spur some level of adoption and not worry
about custody and kind of getting hacked,
because that’s all outsourced and kind of
And then it’s all reverse inquiry, I feel.
I feel like at some point, a lot of the issues
I just described to you– market manipulation,
custody, insurance, DTC– people who said,
hey, I’m not ready to buy Bitcoin at 1,000,
We’re buying at 10,000, 15,000.
Because it sort of got to momentum trading
and you could not not be involved.
And I feel like, in a way, price momentum
will magically erase a lot of these concerns–
perceived or real– that some of these investors
Because as a hedge fund, you’re going to have
LPs be like, why don’t we own any Bitcoin
in our portfolio?
And if the hedge fund still says, no, we still
don’t think it’s legitimate, they’ll get their
They’ll go find that one hedge fund or two
hedge funds that actually are investing into
the asset class itself.
It will sort of become a necessary portfolio
JUSTINE UNDERHILL: Do you think that there’s
a sort of problem in the Bitcoin market right
now– or crypto markets– where there isn’t
a clear way of evaluating prices or what value
Is that something that is also a hurdle to
MICHAEL MORO: I have conversations and kind
of thoughts about why arbitrage opportunities
It shouldn’t, in theory.
Prices for the same thing should be the same
anywhere around the world.
And it’s not.
And I’m not quite sure it will ever be.
And part of it is because different exchanges
charge different fees.
And so people take fees into account when
they’re thinking about prices.
And so they said, oh, yeah, that one’s going
to trade a little bit differently because
their fee structure is a little bit different.
So that’s one.
Two, because of this nature of crypto to crypto
transactions, it actually makes the permutations
and combinations you need to run to keep prices
the same really, really difficult.
We chatted about Apple stock– let’s just
kind of stuck with Apple.
The only way to buy Apple stock currently
is on one exchange, and you can only buy it
JUSTINE UNDERHILL: Yeah.
MICHAEL MORO: In crypto, there’s Bitcoin trades
on hundreds of exchange globally using different
fiat pairs– so whatever the local fiat currency
And, on top of that, I can buy it with Ethereum.
I can sell Ether and buy Bitcoin– so not
even touching the dollar leg.
And I can do that with Litecoin, I can do
that with a bunch of other cryptocurrencies
and buy Bitcoin.
When you have so many different paths and
combinations that can buy and sell everything,
it’s nearly impossible to keep the price exactly
the same across everything.
And so that’s why I think arbitrage opportunities
will exist, although I think the opportunity
is certainly kind of becoming smaller.
JUSTINE UNDERHILL: How do you see high frequency
trading changing this market?
And how has it changed the market already?
MICHAEL MORO: I think that when you speak
to high frequency traders, I think they’ll,
without fail, complain about data feeds, latency–
things that they’re sort of taking for granted
in the other markets just aren’t there yet
And so they’re getting a bunch of error signals
and it’s tougher for them to kind of run strategies
And so that’s why crypto is not ready.
And, to a large extent, perhaps that’s true–
although we’re seeing much more high frequency
buys entering the space, making it certainly
challenging for crypto-only firms– market
makers to sort of compete with some of the
biggest high frequency trading firms in the
But, again, I think that’s a good thing.
I think that for the institutionalization
of the asset class to ultimately happen, I
think you need the high frequency guys kind
of playing in it.
And everyone, I feel like, is dabbling in
I feel like every prop trading firm in Chicago
has a crypto trading operation.
JUSTINE UNDERHILL: Would Genesis consider
getting into more derivatives for crypto?
Or is it pretty much sticking to the OTC of
the lending business and that’s it?
Or where do you see this going?
MICHAEL MORO: I think the premise of Genesis
has always been that while digital currency
is a new asset class– it shares characteristics
with stocks, and bonds, and commodities, but
it’s an asset class on its own.
However, we’re all going after the same pool
of investor money.
It’s the same endowments, hedge funds, family
offices that invest in stocks, bonds, and
gold that we’re saying, hey, have some allocation
And, because of that, I’ve always felt that
the investors are going to want the same products
and services that exist in other markets in
And so there’s a huge gap that still kind
of needs to be filled.
We were chatting about infrastructure and
kind of what’s missing and products and services.
So for Genesis, I think that, again, along
the lines of, investors get this in the stock
We need to replicate some version of that
in cryptocurrency and the way we kind of do
And so, yes, you can buy and sell, you can
now borrow and lend.
So that’s kind of the spot trading and stock
loans in the equity market.
And so we’re trying to figure out how would
we custody funds for clients?
How would we offer futures and options and
potential margin trading?
Which is, again, a CFTC regulated kind of
And how would we wrap all of this in a nice,
neat bundle to be able to kind of offer that
as a registered broker dealer?
I think that’s kind of the biggest challenge
for us right now because a lot of these activities
that I just described requires different regulators.
And broker dealers and prime brokers typically
are able to do everything I just described
under one umbrella.
We don’t have the luxury to be able to do
We have the SEC, we have the CFTC.
We’re also based in New York, so we have the
Department of Financial Services here in the
state that we work very, very closely with
to make sure that we comply with the laws
in New York.
And so trying to build a very cohesive, comprehensive
product suite certainly requires being in
constant dialogue with our regulators.
JUSTINE UNDERHILL: And I’ve got to ask– so
it looks like Facebook has been looking to
get into the crypto space, been looking to
create its own coin.
How do you see that impacting the crypto space
I mean, do you think it’s going to create
more knowledge of– I mean, from users as
to what this world is?
Or do you think that could be potentially
a detriment to Bitcoin as it takes people
away from that?
MICHAEL MORO: It’s funny.
I think that one of the biggest things that
we had to do early on at Genesis was to make
Bitcoin less weird.
It’s sort of seen– it’s esoteric.
You couldn’t hold it.
You were like, how do I explain this to people?
And institutions definitely had a difficult
time at least kind of mentally wrapping their
head around the idea.
Even though now, the world is moving to a
cashless society anyway– people are swiping
debit and credit cards and not handing out
dollars and coins anymore– the idea of a
non-sovereign backed storer of value still
took a long time for people to kind of get
But as firms like Square, as firms like Fidelity,
and as, certainly, a retail platform like
Facebook begins to roll out products like
this, it’ll make crypto trading normal.
It’ll get more and more normalized to where
it’s not as esoteric and strange anymore as
it used to be.
So I think in terms of mass awareness of this
idea of a company kind of coming out and coming
up with its own coin, I think that is tremendously
helpful for the adoption of Bitcoin generally.
And, frankly, to be honest, no one’s using
Bitcoin to make payments anyway.
But that’s not the thing that Bitcoin is solving,
whereas that’s kind of what the Facebook coin
is trying to do.
And so I can’t imagine that this is anything
but a positive for, at least, the awareness
of cryptocurrencies generally.
JUSTINE UNDERHILL: Where do you see the regulatory
landscape in the US going, whether it be for
an ETF or just for ICOs overall?
MICHAEL MORO: I think that that’s probably
one area, again, as to why institutions haven’t
yet really kind of adopted cryptocurrency
is sort of regulatory clarity.
And US has been very vocal– the SEC has–
about, hey, most of these things are securities,
without having provided a lot of clear guidance–
plain English– as to what constitutes a security
and what’s not.
And I don’t necessarily blame the US for it.
Countries around the world like Singapore,
Switzerland have certainly taken a more progressive
approach to legislation and regulation of
ICOs and kind of cryptocurrency generally.
But I’d also argue that they have a lot less
to lose than the US if they were able to get
their policy wrong.
And I think the US also knows that they are
going to be the model for other countries
to emulate and follow.
And so they’re going to take their time to
figure out what the right policy is.
And while we on the business side want answers
today, I understand why regulators are at
least taking their time.
Where the US has a ton of work to do is on
The folks in Congress still, while some of
them are very knowledgeable, the vast majority
of them are not.
And so I think there’s still a ton of education
that the industry kind of needs to do to make
this more of a hot button topic at the top
of mind for lawmakers, even though they have
a ton of other things on their plate to worry
JUSTINE UNDERHILL: In terms of the trading
that you guys do, is it mostly domestic, or
is it international?
How does that break down?
MICHAEL MORO: So we’ve been predominantly
US for the last probably three to four years.
That’s changed in the last couple.
So we’ve seen an influx, certainly, of international
customers and we hired people in Europe.
And we’re looking to hire in Asia right now
for business development folks– especially
around borrowing and lending, because that
actually doesn’t touch the fiat leg.
The US dollar is not necessarily a necessary
component of it.
We see that as a tremendous kind of growth
potential area for us.
But most of our clients on the trading side
are more traditional US-based counter parties
who are looking to transact in large blocks.
JUSTINE UNDERHILL: Interesting.
So then do you see it that if the US doesn’t
get that regulatory framework figured out
soon, that the growth really will be in international
markets for the time being?
MICHAEL MORO: I think that’s already true.
I feel like a lot of companies around the
world no longer need the US to raise capital,
which is crazy.
But that just wasn’t true in other markets.
You needed to go to Wall Street.
You needed to go to the banks and get your
stock offerings underwritten by the biggest
US banks to be able to do it.
Nowadays, companies are able to raise a billion
dollars without touching the US.
And so a lot of that the capital formation,
the job creation is certainly happening in
companies that don’t really need the US.
And in that regard, the US is almost irrelevant,
which is crazy, again, when you think about
the traditional economy.
That doesn’t mean that the US is going to
be irrelevant forever.
I think that the US certainly can catch up.
And, granted, there’s a ton of money in the
And I guarantee you that the companies would
be able to access– would love to access the
US if they could.
And so once they can, I’m sure a lot of that
innovation, job creation, capital formation
will come back to the US.
But in the meantime, no one’s suffering because
the US isn’t being kind of progressive and
kind of coming out with the new policies.
If anything, it’s actually preventing US customers
from being able to access platforms and being
able to invest in interesting projects and
things like that.
Just this morning, Binance basically said
that they’re going to cut off all US customers,
which is about 25% of their user base.
So I think that it actually eliminates options
for US customers.
And so it’s arguably that they’re being harmed
much more than the companies are.
JUSTINE UNDERHILL: Finally, looking back from
everything you’ve learned from 2013 to today
and then looking forward, what lessons can
you apply from your experience in these markets
to, let’s say, what the market will look like
5, 10 years from now?
MICHAEL MORO: I think– and we’ve touched
on this throughout this interview about what’s
What’s missing in crypto?
And, yes, we do tend to kind of focus, because
we compare asset classes and say, hey, equities
has this and Bitcoin doesn’t.
Cryptocurrency doesn’t have this while every
other market does.
And I don’t think we take the time to kind
of appreciate just how far we’ve come in a
very short period of time.
A lot of the products and services and infrastructure
that exists in other markets took decades
Bitcoin itself has only been around for, like,
And to think that we already have a listed
futures product on the CME, that was unthinkable
five years ago.
And so I’m very, very confident that a lot
of the missing pieces will be there.
Give us another few years, and then let’s
see kind of where we are, because a lot of
the smartest people in the world are still
working on the products and services in this
I’m very, very confident that they’ll certainly
kind of figure it out and kind of enhance
the entire customer-investor experience even
But I’m also aware to expect the unexpected.
This asset class is always evolving, always
You take vacation for a week or two, and you’ve
missed so much.
But that’s also part of what makes this whole
thing so much fun.
I’ve never had as much fun in my career as
I’m doing right now.
And I feel like investors, even though they’re
told to only allocate 1% or 5% of their assets
in cryptocurrencies, I feel like it takes
up 80% of their mindshare.
JUSTINE UNDERHILL: Yeah.
MICHAEL MORO: They spend way too much more
time thinking about it, not because they have
to but because they want to.
They find it interesting and intriguing.
And this idea– I just don’t feel like cryptocurrency
is going away.
I think it’s here to stay.
JUSTINE UNDERHILL: Yeah.
It’s come a long way, but there’s still a
long way for it to go.
Michael, thank you so much for sharing your
wealth of knowledge with us.
MICHAEL MORO: Thanks for having me.
JUSTINE UNDERHILL: It was really great to
sit down with Michael today and get his insights
on the future of institutional investment
and regulation in the crypto space, as well
as an inside look at the lending market, including
the growing area of borrowing Bitcoin for
I hope you guys all enjoyed it.
For Real Vision, I’m Justine Underhill.
Seven lessons from the 2017 bull market
and how you can get ready for the next
bull run out at 2017 crypto
bull run seems so far away,
but it was not long ago that the price
of bitcoin reached an all time high of
around 19,500 US dollars
on the 17th of December,
2017 so in this video,
I will share my top seven lessons
from the 2017 crypto bull run.
What I learnt and so on.
So as someone who got into the crypto
space in 2015 I must say that 2017 bull
run one was one of the most
unreal experiences I’ve
ever experienced and I don’t
think it will be the last.
So if you bought bitcoin
or other cryptocurrencies
in the last year or you’re
planning to buy some bitcoin
of cryptocurrencies soon,
then this video is for you.
So make sure to watch to the end as these
seven lessons will help you make the
most out of your investment
during the next bull run.
So let’s get started. Lesson number one.
it does not matter how smart or
experienced educated you are.
Timing is everything. So the
crypto market is super irrational.
First of all,
it’s due to the low market capitalization
due to manipulation and due to a lot
and that’s why you need to think about
how long you would like to keep your
cryptocurrency, what kind of
investment plan you want to have. Now,
most people that have held bitcoin
for over a year did very well.
So apparently there are only 70 days.
If you look from today’s date that
bitcoin has been unprofitable to buy,
that means that if you bought
bitcoin at any random point in time,
there’s a 98.17% chance
that you’re profitable.
my suggestion is buy forget and
ignore the small price fluctuations.
So if you bought Bitcoin, for
example, in the 18th of September,
2017 and you held onto it until today,
then you’d have doubled your money.
But hindsight is 2020 it is always
easy. So the longterm holding is,
in my opinion, the key to
lower taxes and greater wealth.
Lesson number two, hype is your enemy.
So we are all human and as such, we have
some predictably emotions, greed, fear,
And these emotions get multiplied as
soon as there’s money on the table. Now,
one of our predictable
behaviours is, for example,
being vulnerable to storytelling hype.
So it could be the fear of missing out
on a huge opportunity and people telling
that they have found some
riches by buying a coin.
I remember really well the
feelings that bubbled inside of me.
When I heard about a new
promising ICO during 2017,
or read about this hidden
gem and incredible and super
great advisors and blah,
blah, blah, blah, blah. Now maybe
you’ve heard of a similar experiences.
You’ve read about it on reddit. And yeah,
this feeling of missing out was so great.
It prevented me from thinking
rationally. Now I wanted to the by a,
this coin or that coin
as fast as possible,
dropping everything else I was doing.
And very often they didn’t end well.
Had a big losses of very often these
projects had massive presale discounts,
fluffy games, paid reviews and so on.
So after being burnt once and losing
my initial investment I learnt to look
through this hype and,
and think a lot more before
investing lesson number three.
Now if the creator of a project decides
to sell or donate his or her coins,
you maybe should think
probably of doing the same.
And the reason I’m saying
that is you might remember,
well at the end of 2017 Charlie
Lee the founder of litecoin,
he announced that he had
sold all of his position.
Now why selling doesn’t really matter.
It may be for personal reasons
that made it views, doesn’t matter.
So I think it’s just really important
to be extremely cautious when founders
decide to sell all of the tokens and
maybe also think about also exiting your
position, especially if this
is public information. Now,
as side note in the stock market,
the investing firm Berkshire Hathaway
held the record 122 $ billion in cash in
2019 so this cash holding is worth
nearly 60% of his portfolio of public
companies, the largest proportion
since before the last financial crisis.
So this is also a sign that they are
scared of the next financial crisis.
You’d be the judge.
Now, lesson number four,
you have to be very careful about all
youtubers and bloggers that speculate
about which coin to watch or which
coin to buy next month or next year.
Very often a youtuber,
bloggers don’t tell you if the paid or
promoted a special project and so on or
they got compensation.
Now I want to be as authentic as possible
and I always tell you if something
sponsored or if I’ve been paid to bring
a project to you and keep in mind that
when you see someone hyping a project,
they might have big amounts invested.
So lesson number five do
not attempt day trade.
And I have to repeat this again,
do not day trade unless you’re
very experienced in trading.
And this will only give you more
sleepless nights and anxiety and a lot of
stress and you probably
lose your investment.
Now do not trade high leverage if you
don’t want to end up on the rekt bitmex
Twitter account. And that me personally,
I’m starting to think that 50 x a hundred
x margin trading on Bitmex is like
playing a Russian roulette with a two
barrel shotgun using two Shells mindless.
So, and if you decide to trade then only
with a very small percentage of your
portfolio so something like 5% or longterm
holding is much more profitable for
the long run for most
investors. Lesson number six.
So very important. Don’t your
chickens before they hatch.
In other words, don’t profit
until you have cashed out.
So one bitter sweet memory I had
during the last bull market was when I
participated on a ICO and
it was called Carvertical.
I remember I bought the coins,
I participate in ICO and my
2000 US dollar investment,
I did went to 35’000 US dollar.
So I was super happy euphoric.
And furthermore, I truly believed
that the price would go even higher.
So I didn’t sell. So then when
the price dropped back down, I,
my investment went to 23,000 US dollars.
I was a not so happy and I also didn’t
sell because I thought the investment
will go much higher and yeah,
I already started regretting now selling
at 35,000 US dollars and I’m in the
end, I’m lucky I managed
to break even and yeah,
my fear of missing out,
caused me not to get the profit I had.
So a good rule of thumb is to set some
sell orders at various price points so
that you can take out your initial
investment and a little bit more if you’re
lucky. Me Personally,
these three points are super
important advice. So first of all,
always take out your initial
investment when it goes up.
Dollar cost average sell
to get the highest average
selling price and profit is
profit. Don’t fret about the price
going much higher after you have sold.
So if you made a profit, you’re
better than most people in the market,
lesson number seven last but not least,
remember that you should not invest
more than you’re willing to lose.
I know many people that are talking
about that, but it’s super important.
Do not take out any loans to invest in
this market that have been quite a few
examples on reddit where people have
lost everything and now they need to pay
back a huge loan over the next
10 years, for example. So yeah,
I’m super looking forward to the
next bull market and me personally,
I think it will be around 2021
I look at four year cycle.
So hopefully you can use these tips to
make the most profit as possible with the
least risk. Now,
if you enjoyed this type of video and
you want to see me cover similar topics
and I’d appreciate a subscription,
and don’t forget to click that
notification to stay up to date.
Thanks for watching and I’ll
see you on the next one.
Hello everyone this is adam meister the
bitcoinmeister the disrupt meister
welcome to the one bitcoin show today is
September the 22nd 2019 strong hand be
any peace value or wealth and bitcoin
one bitcoin equals one bitcoin bitcoin
is the next bitcoin offended by selling
hello my elite friends check out fridays
this week in bitcoin show disrupt
meister calm jeff ran drew was on guy
swan he was in the house who was the
third guy that was in the house I don’t
remember he was so freaking awesome that
Christian was in the house of course and
thank you upset classified for the one
dollar doing it nation I think it was a
great donation whatever it was that was
important to you to know you’re a fan
but yeah you can watch the be on Bitcoin
show was yesterday Saturday all at
distraught my strike on follow me on
Twitter te CH be alt text ok let’s start
it up on a positive note there oh I
forgot to save five-digit realm palnet
like one okay
10-year and that and five digit realm
I’m saying this because of this Alistair
Milne tweet that should put a big smile
on your faces ten years from now son dad
son says dad do you remember when
Bitcoin broke above ten thousand dollars
and the father says which of the eighty
nine times do you mean
yeah it’s funny because I remember god
2017 when we first got over $10,000
people were having $10,000 celebrations
on the YouTube on their channels I think
Thomas had one on the world crypto
Network and now we have it’s like it’s
broken 10,000 so suddenly different ties
and keeps going four-digit five digit
so yeah it you know it’ll keep doing the
people one day it’ll be totally
five-digit realm we’ve we’re getting
used to it now these last the thing and
Alistair is actually pointed out before
we’ve been above $9,000 for all you feel
freaks out there for what like 90 days
or something like that everyone loses
perspective everyone loses perspective
there’s so many we cancel over Ted we
can’t maintain five digits but like I
mean imagine the beginning of this year
I mean when I was in Israel again this
is my second trip in Israel about to go
back to Baltimore but my first trip in
is rose during the winter this year and
it was $3,000 and everyone thought it
was the end of the world and and now
it’s been $9,000 for months and people
are panicked put it in perspective
I remember the three-digit realm check
out the archives and you can see how
things used to be and how it pays off
big time to have a freaking strong hand
and never sell that Bitcoin you just
collect those crypto dividends and you
turn them in a more Bitcoin yes that’s
insider information most people don’t
know hey you hold your Bitcoin properly
on your treasurer your ledger
your your hardware or whatever and you
get these Forks and the air drops those
are the crypto dividends you get
interest in your Bitcoin you don’t have
to lend your Bitcoin out oh god forbid
you lend your precious Bitcoin out to
some Bitcoin back and they might pay you
or they might steal all your Bitcoin you
get the interest from the dividend
process and of course the minimal
Wingull coin one is the one we all
signed up for recently and that’s coming
out on December 11th but we’ve got we’ll
talk about that later okay so speaking
about later this week we’ve got a fun
event coming up on Tuesday people are
you guys ready for the US House
Financial Services Committee plans to
question the Securities and Exchange
Commission about crypto currencies and
Facebook Slee breh project about crypto
currencies and Facebook’s Libre project
next week among a host of other topics
okay guys that’s Tuesday so get ready
for the fun and get ready for a volatile
nice all the speculators saying let’s
sell a lot now to make all these we can
sell more so we can get back we can get
it we can get it a cheap price and then
flip it for more once the hearing ends
hahaha hat where we seen this before no
we’ve seen it at every single hearing
but people just don’t learn and they
still have weak hands this don’t worry
about what the government has to okay
it’s the fridge this is where the big
boys play if you still get trapped that
way that’s your business
first responsibilities new
counterculture I’m just I’m just telling
you the way it is it keeps happening
over and over and over again so another
fun to be aware of I’m sure you guys
heard the news that Google might have
gotten into quantum computing sort of so
that means the ambiguity behind the
quantum stories emanating from Google
people are all of them if they can hack
Bitcoin out do this Bitcoin be ready
people for the fun you know we’re always
gonna have to quantum find it II there’s
no proof than anything remotely close to
what is being speculated is even
happening so we shall see we will see
what happens I want to I’m not worried
about it but it’s in the news you know
how the news is
they’ve got to sensationalize everything
and soon you’ll be so Oh Google they’ll
be articles about Google can hack
Bitcoin soon maybe sort of in you know
that’s the body of the article have all
the qualifiers in there okay we’ve got a
tweet from OD here who I saw tonight at
the bitcoin embassy and yeah it’s really
late at night in Tel Aviv because it’s
even late at night back on the East
Coast but that’s conviction for you a
new show here every single day baby
alright except this second day of Rosh
Hashanah which is actually gonna come up
soon and we’ll explain that later
although I might be able to get a show
off my pre-tape a show to put won’t
worry about it when that comes up that’s
Russia shot it’s coming up though in a
all right so are you guys prepared you
got your apples and honey now who knew
dad will be having a great rush Hashanah
next Sunday night he says and this is a
lesson from Z cash he reminds us of an
article that said chemist man build a
better Bitcoin and it showed the Z cash
to you this was a couple years ago and
he says well it he says well it turns
out he couldn’t even build a better – so
that’s for all you uh
people who believe that and this will
happen again with the newbies come
flying back into cryptocurrency that
their coin is the next Bitcoin well that
was a straight-up headline saying you
know Z cash isn’t is a better Bitcoin
they couldn’t even build a better –
which Judy explains in this tweet but
bitcoin is the next Bitcoin that’s what
that saying means of mine okay
there have been straight-up articles
like the one booty retweets or the
picture of the article they yzi can this
man build a better Bitcoin and everyone
gets excited oh gee cash genius will be
able to build a better and then we look
at it a few years later they couldn’t
even build a better – – is better than
sea cash repair all right you can get an
argument you all corners which one’s
better I know where I’ve been the entire
time that is with Bitcoin pound that
like button follow me on steam it and
bitcoinmeister haven’t said that for a
while uh okay let’s talk about
diversification for the sake of
diversification a company that just
specializes in that diversification for
the sake of diversification can anyone
guess the name of the company that in
the cryptocurrency space that
specializes in that that really likes
that kind of thing now that that is
banking on so many newbies
coming into the space and just you know
creating a portfolio on their site so
it’s coinbase of course and here is a
and they can do this I have no problem
with we need to put the business
everybody freaks out on coinbase as in
their suggests they’re going to add
coin this is where the big boys play if
people don’t realize what the kind of
nonsense that coinbase is listing on
their and they want to diversify for the
sake of diversity they haven’t gotten it
yet that these are just pump pump tools
for VC’s some of them some of our RBC
coins here coinbase this is a tweet from
law master says coin basics is exploring
listing all of these assets and it lists
a bunch of whack coins okay I mean like
we’re talking like third tier and fourth
tier type codes the vast majority of
them are VC chains that will very likely
crashing down you immediately after
being listed some B C’s already wrote
off these investments coin base is
basically considering facilitating a
retail dump yes yes they are I mean yes
they’re trying to they’re allowing these
people to dump on retail so that that’s
that’s what coin base does that’s that’s
a business model will that be successful
in the long run that’s there but I’m not
a coin based investor I don’t give a
so I mean everyone gets worked up about
it I won’t get too worked out about it
you just tell newbies don’t diversify
for the sake of time versus get Bitcoin
I mean that that’s the bottom line here
I mean if you don’t say just get Bitcoin
then people right well I’ll get other
things and it just leads them down the
rabbit hole and and coin basis this is a
very easy place where you get everything
or not everything but you get you get
the point here so yeah I don’t just if
you if you wanna get Bitcoin get into
coinbase sure but don’t don’t divers
friend rooms take up diversification
they make it really easy but that’s
their business model let’s see if it
succeeds all right that’s their business
I mean I wouldn’t mind if it succeeded
I mean it’s so what if 84 senators
they’re gonna do what they’re gonna do
it’s not hurting me it actually might
help me because coinbase might be able
to go public one day and that would be
good for the space or coinbase might
sell us off to a larger corporation and
that’ll be good news for the space so if
80% is one of fun coin basis a success
great do it it’s your business I mean
get your fourth-tier altcoin john
mattone is an old an old article of his
I’ve got listed below link to below and
there’s a couple of reasons I have it
listed what is it he was this is from
2013 and he was going against Carl
denature who was saying basically
bitcoin was going to zero and and champa
tonus was right Carl temperature was
very wrong in this old-school article
but I’m also mentioning it because and
I’m just making sure because I rephrase
what mattone is says here about mod or
money monetary theory related stuff and
it’s the 80 perc it’s my basis for why
80% money mmt can work and bitcoin can
work and when we say can work we’re
already living in it and I talked about
this on Saturday show the way the United
States dollar is printed since 1971 it
is already mocked modern monetary theory
they just keep printing and printing and
printing and the 80 percenters keep
buying it and inflation sometimes
doesn’t show up it shows up in certain
corners of the especially in like 80
percent of land I mean a wedding cost a
lot more than it used to
I mean does that really bother me no our
spectacular wedding cost a lot more than
it used to air everyone buy spectacular
weddings now I mean it’s the printing of
the United States dollar constantly
Soviet you can point to places where
it’s inflated certain parts of the
economy but they’re not like necessary
parts of the economy at all I knew 80
percenters are gonna do what they’re
gonna do but I moved back to the main
premise here and let me paraphrase here
all money is a universal mass illusion a
market-based illusion can be just as
valid or more valid than a state control
illusion monetary illusions themselves
are a competitive marketplace it is
false that only the state is in a
special position to confer legitimacy in
monetary matters okay so a lot of people
out there and clean car Karl damager
said that the non state money is
illegitimate that only states can make
money that only states the nation states
can print money and it’s that’s not true
I agree with Java tonus then anyone can
print their own money
bitcoin is its own money and it’s a
marketplace it’s a let the people pick
and you money is a universal messily
Jenai I believe that also and that the
dollar wins the 80 percenter marketplace
and Bitcoin wins so 20% our marketplace
and they win for completely different
reasons of course I mean the dollar is
just it represents the strength of the
unite of the United States the culture
of the United States the ease of the
dollar the power of the United States
that people are stuck in it basically
the the Bitcoin it actually does
something it gets you around the USA /
state rules and regulations so they but
hey both can exist there’s I have no
problem with the United States up
printing the dollar and just wildly and
I don’t I don’t think it really doesn’t
hurt me everyone has to understand
there’s a separation of spending and
saving don’t save in the US dollar there
that’s not what it’s for
it’s for suspending the government has
made this very clear that they that that
currency it’s first Bitcoin it’s for
savings it’s a real asset okay so yeah
modern monetary theory works in this
time of a tech and abundance you don’t
have to be part of it mmm tea is for the
target slash government job working man
is Bitcoin is for the elite the
government has no balance it creates
money when it spends
that’s what mmm tea says as taxes are
deleted never spent so our federal taxes
fund nothing this is okay so that’s mm
tea you can believe it you can care
about you can ignore it I I say they’re
they’ve been pulling it off since 1971
there definitely has it’s definitely
been an mm tea type of system I have
explored it quite a bit lately and I
think bitcoiners should say yeah let let
if if they want to promote mm tea with
the United States dollar
just keep why not big Bitcoin in mm –
yeah and the US dollar can get along
does it doesn’t hurt Bitcoin at all
people how was their hyperinflation no
people are gonna lose faith in the
dollar and if they did then it’d be
great great for a big coin anyway I
sorry I’ve linked to uh some mmt stuff
below – if you really care about that
what Saturday’s show I talked a little
bit more about it but the reality is
that mmt just describes a system that
most countries in the world live under
and have lived under since 1971 so don’t
freak out too much about mmt modern
monetary theory it’s just what is now
the the one thing that you were here
Amity a lot about is these at the green
New Deal type of stuff they’re like well
we just print the money and pay for it
just print the money and pay for aspects
of it and but then if they say if
inflation starts then we have to start
taxing everyone now that part I don’t
that part um
I’m not down with that part of it if
inflation starts and stopped renting the
freakin money alright because there are
a lot of people that are saying that so
far we’ve been printing the money and
there really hasn’t been inflation I say
there has been inflation in non
necessities do you need uh do you need a
mega mansion or a McMansion do you
really need a McMansion you see just in
the United States
if such a high-level level of a high
standard of living that people think
they need a lot of things and but they
don’t really need these you don’t need
to go out to eat all the time and these
are the things where the prices have
gone up in some of these it can’t be
denied but with the government
statistics for inflation it doesn’t look
like there’s exactly good inflation if
you play your cards right if you’re 20
percent IRR you can still buy things
that you mean and it’s not costing me a
lot more money okay just because United
States is printing a bunch of dollars
the system is working really well
people are getting richer businesses are
starting with the money printing that’s
been going on so I if these we’re gonna
have to get used to the fact that by
2024 there’s gonna be a lot of socialist
stuff flying around the United States of
America and they’re gonna they’re gonna
say either we’re they’re gonna want to
tax people and that is feeling taxation
is definitely theft now some of you are
saying well printing money is a is theft
also well it you have to understand what
the US dollar is it is not a savings
mechanism you shouldn’t be saving in any
way it’s been clear since 1971 so I
think that printing money for certain
projects government projects yeah it’s
going to cause distortions it’s gonna
cause distortions it isn’t right but
it’s basically picking winners
it isn’t picking losers though when
you’re doing when you when you set when
you set up new taxes that is picking
losers and that’s I’m not down with that
but again I mean big you you can just
look at all this from an outsider
perspective if you value your wealth in
Bitcoin you don’t have to get emotional
and in craze about the dollar being
printed and printed to fund health care
or to fund reparations or to fund the
green new deal because you’re not your
your I mean you might get some of those
dollars and what you should do is get
into you don’t get it you don’t spend it
on a massive wedding or a massive house
going out to eat I’ll never know you get
big but most people are gonna spend it
way back and they’re gonna spend it back
into the economy and build up these 80
percenter industries all right let him
do that okay move moving this so that’s
my take on mmt for now it was Saturday’s
show I talk more about it I just let him
print the dollar let him for thought
let’s see what the how they experiment
it keeps on going I really think people
believe in it’s so darn much they will
they are stuck in it and they will it
won’t be inflated very very much it
won’t hurt you and I because we we don’t
value our wealth in dollars we have real
assets I mean this is this is the world
of 20 percenters and 80 percenters they
should know better not to worship the
dollar not to keep spending spending
spending there’s a separation of
spending and saving dollars about the
spending bitcoin is about the saving you
choose your path all right double spend
cash is a and pound that light one is a
site that shows the double spend attack
attempts on B cash and I found that
about this site because there’s been a
successful double spend attempt on B
cash vortex retweeted this I’ve got it
linked to below and and someone someone
replied well at least we learned double
spends are not the immediate end of the
currency which we fear okay that’s a
good point there is a small silver
lining there maybe the person says I
think the other silver lining here is
that because she’s not Bitcoin they
could have free things like double
spends happy it doesn’t happen on big
coin okay said there’s a takeaway from
that I haven’t heard anything else about
this double spend think maybe people
just don’t care about be cash at all
maybe there’s just stuff that many users
would be cash that’s clearly true I mean
if this has something comparable to this
happened on aetherium you would hear a
lot about it because there are a lot of
aetherium users and people are really
bitcoins kind of blow salt certain
bitcoins blow the aromatic proportion
let them do what they’re gonna do over
there some people through it feel
threatened by fear and there’s no doubt
about it they shouldn’t they don’t fit
clearly they do not feel threatened by P
cash was this story isn’t going anywhere
but there is a site dedicated to to
check-in these things out double spend
dot cash check it out link to below and
that’s it I think that is the end of the
show late at night here i’m adam meister
the bitcoinmeister this rotmeister
remember to subscribe this channel like
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bang that bell button click on those
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what’s going on guys Patrick here
bringing you a brand new video today we
got another killer video if you guys
full of information today we’re gonna be
talking about bitcoins breakout is it
gonna be to the upside or the downside
we’re also gonna be talking about a five
hundred percent profit trade XRP as well
as tons of other news that went on in
the cryptocurrency space but guys before
we get start with that we do a giveaway
at the end of every single video so make
sure if you want to enter to win a
giveaway make sure you are leaving a
thumbs up you are leaving tons of
comments down below and you are
subscribe to the channel also before we
jump in some technical analysis I’ve
launched version 2 of the cryptocurrency
all-stars trade alert group so if you
guys are interested in making money
trading crypto currencies make sure you
check out the first link in the
description or the first link in the
comments for our cryptocurrency trade
alert group I post every single one of
the trades that brought me to a
six-figure portfolio in the group so if
you’re a complete beginner if you don’t
know how to do technical analysis or if
you just don’t have time to do technical
analysis you can copy my exact trade it
takes two to three minutes to set up and
after that profit to take it
automatically for you so it becomes a
very very passive we have all coin
trades we have leveraged trades and we
have some of the smartest people in the
cryptocurrency community to answer any
and all questions that you have no
matter what time of the day but enough
about that I have added more 40% off
coupons for those of you who want to
jump in right now a very limited supply
of those are available so if you aren’t
said make sure you do go ahead and check
that out now I’m gonna move my head and
let’s jump into some technical analysis
alright guys welcome back as you can
tell I’m back in New York so videos and
uploads should be a lot more regular
right now than they were before where
we’re currently sitting at in terms of
Bitcoin have the X BT USD chart because
this is the bit mix chart that came out
since the last time we talked well what
I mentioned the last video pretty much
happened to perfection we had that
bounce up to touch our resistance over
here and from there we started having
this downward move so if you were able
to catch then you were able to enter
short at this range then congratulations
and speaking of shorts that’s what I
wanted to share with you guys have been
working on strategies for the trade
alert group where we use higher
leverages for some shorter term trades
for some scalps and one of the test ones
that I had was actually pretty much this
whole candlestick down I used cross
leveraged was pretty much a hundred X
leverage and I made over five hundred
percent profit holding that trade over
night so that was pretty insane I’m
gonna throw up some screenshots that you
guys can see one of them’s 120% I forgot
to take a screenshot of the five hundred
percent one because it was overnight and
I was excited when I woke up but here’s
a one hundred percent probably one for
you guys to take a look at that happen
on some other trades
now why we’ve been shorting why I’ve
been shorting during this time this is
important we’ve noticed a trend has
actually chained we’ve had a change in
the trend happening ever since this huge
candle came in so before this we were
making higher highs we were having those
bounces we’re making higher highs we
bounced off of our support down here
moved on up to the resistance and from
there we could see this whole thing was
a very bullish short-term mover on the
hourly chart this was from the 28th of
August 29th of August all the way to the
6th of September so it is a shorter term
timeframe we are looking at and from
here we’re making higher highs like I
said we’re making higher lows and that
was overall a bullish trend now what
happened from there as we had the bounce
off the resistance this huge sell-off
red candle came in and from there we’ve
been making lower highs as we go and
we’ve been making lower lows as well as
you guys can tell we’ve been making
lower lows as well and that is a bearish
sign that is bearish momentum so in the
short term here and of course we’re
talking about the short term first
before we zoom out into the long button
to the bigger picture right the longer
term in the short term this is easier to
catch shorts because we are in a short
term bearish trend so every time we have
a bounce up off of a support right
Bitcoin loves to do it we bounce a
little bit we go up you can enter a
short here and make some significant
profits on the way down same thing can
be said again it bounced back up and
right back down you’ll actually be able
to tell this line perfectly drawn well
something I signaled as an entry for a
long so what happened we bounced off of
the support and we went straight back up
if you calculate that over here it was
roughly 2.8 percent so again to use
cross leverage you could have made over
200% on that trade it is high high risk
but of course if you know what you’re
doing if you apply risk management it
can be very very rewarding so that’s
pretty much what we’ve been doing in the
last week it’s been a lot of fun weekend
we’ve had the bearish momentum
I believe the bearish momentum is going
to continue at least until the lower
target would be
hit the 9350 range to 9400 somewhere in
this area where we would bounce off of
that support do we need to see that
no first things first obviously we
caught the first target which was the
9800 range to 9850 you guys will see why
it’s drawn over here you’ll see the
bounce off of here and from now we wait
to catch another entry if it is all the
way up at ten thousand three hundred to
ten thousand three hundred and fifty for
a short that might be something really
interesting as well but for now it’s
important for us to play these
short-term bearish trend which is where
we’re at right now and make sure we keep
that in mind now if we zoom out and we
go to the daily this is important of
course because we want to make sure we
know the long at the big picture thing
as well so we had bullish momentum all
the way up over here
what happened was we entered this
triangle which is a bearish pattern and
usually breaks to the downside of course
it can happen both ways but as of right
now again very similar what we’ve seen
we’ve just been bouncing from the tops
to the bottoms we’ve seen these bounces
that’s what bitcoins been doing so we
can safely assume again that when we
bounced off here we were going to be
going back down it was nothing crazy
that took very little skill and insight
to know that that was going to happen
but now we await more of a breakup so
that’s what the long term is looking at
right now we are waiting for more of a
breakout if we do break to the upside
then we could definitely be aiming that
$14,000 price target which i think would
make a lot of people very happy if they
are holding Bitcoin however if this
trend does get closer and this is we’re
talking early October to early November
so it’s a very very short-term thing and
something that’s going to be happening
you know we’re looking at the long term
something’s going to be happening
relatively soon in the next few weeks
slash maybe one to two months is when we
should be seeing this breakout happen
and if it breaks to the downside first
things first I’m looking at obviously
you guys saw the first highlight it’s
almost nine thousand eight hundred
dollar range next would be the nine
thousand three hundred to nine thousand
four hundred and a break below that
could bring us down to the high eight
thousands with the lowest I see Bitcoin
going roughly around eight thousand
maybe a high seven thousands would be a
view worst-case scenario in my opinion
for the Bitcoin price movement so it’s
important I’m going to keep you guys
updated with everything that’s going on
first to say updated with everything
that’s going on there’s a lot of
movement right now there’s a lot of
opportunity although a lot of people are
looking this looking at this as sideways
movement there is still a lot of
opportunity if you know what you’re
doing if you get in at the right times
and the most important thing when it
comes to getting in at the right times
is you know more important than you take
profits anything is your stop losses and
your entries right I said I try to set
entries early I have an entry set for
example at ten thousand three hundred to
ten thousand three hundred fifty dollars
for a short in case we do end up going
there that way the entry gets filled in
that to me is a comfortable spot where
I’m comfortable making an entry but
enough about that moving on talking
about all coins cuz I know a lot of you
guys I get a lot of questions all the
time asking about how all coins are
doing when we can expect an all coin
season well things are looking a little
bit better than they were before not
great but they’re looking a little bit
better if you look at the last week all
coins have actually performed very well
we’ve had some significant pumps and
some all coins some of them come from
pump and dump reasons but some of them
are also seeing some strong fundamentals
commit and we’re starting to see price
move up now we have strong resistance as
I have highlighted for the Bitcoin
dominance at 72 to 73 percent that’s
what you guys are seeing right here and
the first time we touched that was back
here we had a wick that came in touch
rejected got back down to roughly the
high 70% and we went again and tried to
break out again this is on the weekly
chart and we were not able to do so
again another long week no clothes above
this area and now we open the new weekly
candle not too long ago and it looks
like an indecision candle right now very
small body small wicks as well but a
very small body
it hasn’t been able to break that 72
percent mark the 72 to 73 percent mark
if it does break obviously that’s going
to be bad for all coins all coins are
going to suffer more do I think all
coins are dead by no means so I think
all coins are dead both with leverage
and without leverage you can still make
a lot of money if you know what you’re
doing and if you are patient but this
resistance has been going on all the way
since back here
since you know mid 2017 so it does make
sense this is is um that this is a
stronger resistance that we’re facing
right now again it doesn’t mean we can’t
break above it if we do have a confirmed
break above it it’s going to be bad for
all coins we can see big diamonds get up
seventy-five percent some people are
even targeting eighty percent by all
means we know how cryptocurrency is it’s
wild it does what it wants so it’s
possible but I would like to see from
here at least a little bit of
consolidation for bitcoins elements so
all coins can start to pick up and start
to move more than what we’re seeing them
move already this last week was great
but I think a lot of us especially you
know a lot of guys watch this probably
are holding all coins and you guys want
to see all coins start to move now if
you look at coin market gap Bitcoin is
down 2.1 9% to 2.2 percent in the last
24 hours again a bearish overall trend
you’ll see the last week what happened
that huge jump up to touch that
resistance and from there it’s just been
on a downward slope again it didn’t take
a lot to realize that’s what’s going to
happen we have a two hundred and fifty
seven billion dollar mark koep and the
biggest Gator of the day Metaverse ETP
bite coin next so read if you actually
look at one called a BBC I believe in
the last 24 hours is going to be down
somewhere here but it had a huge
explosion to upside that a lot of us
were able to catch but yeah definitely a
more read day than Green Day in the
market we can already assume that
happens only a handful of crypto
currencies in the Green like I said
maneuvers ETP of the most and GX chain
is down at over 18% loss a BBC over 12
percent loss energy over 11 percent loss
and so on you guys get the idea but it’s
not all bad because we’ve actually had a
record high of accounts with over 10
Bitcoin what does that mean it means
that the people with a lot of money the
people with you know more money I’d say
10 Bitcoin is a pretty good amount of
Bitcoin if you look at the amount of
people to actually hold that it’s a very
very small amount six hundred and
nineteen thousand people have an account
between one to ten Bitcoin obviously
there’s a few with more but overall this
is not a big number when you compare it
to everything else and how much you know
how many people there are in the world
it’s a very very small number but the
people in the range of 10 Bitcoin plus
we’ve actually had a record high so what
does that mean it means people with a
lot of money people with over ten
Bitcoin are using this time to
accumulate more bitcoins either that or
they’re taking accounts to have a
thousand and splitting them up into
several wallets of ten that’s possible
as well but more likely I think a lot of
people are starting to a
well a Bitcoin and get to over ten
Bitcoin which I think if you factor in
how many Bitcoin there are and if you
think it’s going to continue to grow and
continue to get more and more adoption
ten Bitcoin could be worth a lot more in
the future especially if we see people’s
price prediction come true of a hundred
1 million dollars even ten Bitcoin will
be tell me in 10 million dollars that’s
absolutely not bad but the key takeaway
from this was that smart money people
with a lot of money I’d say not
necessarily smart but people with a lot
of money that usually got a lot of money
for a reason they’re using this time to
accumulate more and more Bitcoin but I
think that is bullish even if we break
to the downside we see Bitcoin price job
I think those people are going to
continue to accumulate more and more and
therefore if everything plays out the
way I assume you and I want to which is
prices go up they will be making a lot
of money now brave browser actually top
japanese browser market and became the
most downloaded browser on the japanese
google store so that’s very good news
again for basic attention to looking for
the brave browser getting more and more
adoption a good altcoin basic attention
soak in my opinion i hold it I’ve been
holding it for awhile I think it’s very
very good and moving on XRP is well XRP
holders kid now or an interest for
holding XRP tokens on the Biman’s
lending platform some good news if X RP
is moving relatively soul to last I
think it’s going to have a big end of
2018 to start a 2020 I think there’s
still a lot of movement to come for x RP
even while it’s been in this
accumulation stage after all this I do
still think we have a lot of room to go
up but if you want to earn some interest
for holding it you can do so Honda
finance lending a platform just a little
bit of update for you guys the most
important part of this video was that
one we’re getting regular we’re getting
regular uploads back into technical
analysis wise things are looking very
very interesting and Bitcoin still has a
lot of opportunity in the next few weeks
now we’re going to jump into the
giveaway it’s Wednesday so we’re doing a
free one on one call with me and make
sure you guys tune in on Friday because
I guarantee you I’m going to be
uploading not guarantee you we’re going
to be doing a crypto giveaway on Friday
so make sure you are subscribed make
sure you are leaving tons of comments on
this video and you are giving this video
thumbs up so you can enter a chance to
win well let’s see who wins the free
one-on-one coil of talking to a bunch of
guys on these calls they can’t wait to
do another one all right so we had to go
through a spam bot that did come in as
the winner so we had to pick again the
winner John Arno I see oh hype no
aetherium price rise and the death cross
isn’t looking that well long term he’s
bullish on a theory and short term not
this came after I asked what everyone’s
thought on aetherium was and thank you
John for your response
honestly I agree I think the I think the
ico hype inflated the price of a theorem
it’s going to take a lot for it to get
back up there long term obviously we can
be more bullish short term it’s
important to play the price range it did
go very low so right now it’s
stabilizing a little bit but yeah
getting back to the all-time highs it’s
going to take a lot if we don’t have
another ICO hype round which I think
we’re probably not going to because a
lot of people I’m think aren’t fans of
ICL’s in this space anymore but guys
thank you so much for watching I’ll see
you guys on Friday for another video
Over the past couple of months Bitcoin
and other cryptocurrencies have been
making a comeback
so should you invest let’s go through
those numbers and talk about it coming
up. Welcome back to The Jeremy Kersten
Show every episode we talk about
business entrepreneurship investing and
personal growth today we’re gonna be
talking about Bitcoin and a few other
coins and how their prices have come up
over the past few months and how you can
get started if you have not started
investing in them already be sure to
subscribe if you haven’t already if you
like this kind of content smash that
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let’s go ahead and get started okay guys
here we are on corn-based calm now if
you’re not familiar with coinbase that
is the number one place largest company
where the United States could go and
invest in cryptocurrencies now they
don’t offer all of the crypto currencies
only a number of them but it’s just kind
of a great way to get started anyways so
the first of all markets we’re going to
talk about the Bitcoin everybody’s heard
of Bitcoin it’s most popular one the
most dominant one the one with the
largest market capitalization of right
now currently 95 billion dollars but you
know and we all remember when it was
going crazy and had that all-time high
coinbase says it’s 17 point one thousand
some other exchanges would say 19 but
anyways over the just the past month
we’ve had an increase of 39% so that’s
pretty good you know return on just one
month I you know over the year though
from this time last year we’re down 40%
so you know just kind of be careful I
mean we all remember this like I said
big high right here 17 and
you know but the crypto has done this
before it’s it’s done with big ups and
then come back down and then come up and
you know it’s right back down again
so generally overall you know you can
kind of decide if it’s something you
want to do if it is again what if your
sent them looks pretty good but if you
are interested down below in the
description I’m going to have some links
where you can go and sign up for
coinbase and I think they’re still doing
it where you’ll that you get an extra I
mean will give you a $5 for signing up
be sure to hit that link down in the
description below the second one we’re
gonna take a look at is litecoin this is
the one that I got started on with no
particular reason why I guess I just
kind of guess I suppose I like to where
the price was when I purchased I
purchased back in 2017 right before like
really went big and mainstream and I
made a little bit of money you know and
then kind of went back down so sort of
pretty much broke even thank goodness
but you know $71 right now in the past
month we’re looking at a 23% increase on
the price it’s pretty good as far as the
overall in the past year though down 50%
but overall all time you know you’re up
104 percent so you know just take that
information do your own due diligence
another one popular ones ripple I never
invested in ripple but you know over the
month you’re down just a little bit over
the past week you’re down 13 percent
over the past year you’re down 61
percent so I don’t know it sounds a
little rough right now but you know
again Bitcoin this whole market to me is
a little speculative that’s why I’ve
really sold everything that I had and
kind of got out I just you know Warren
Buffett’s famous for saying don’t invest
in something you don’t understand as I
think everybody thought they wanted to
understand crypto currencies it’s a
pretty complex issue and is it ever
gonna take off and become mainstream and
even if it does is the value really
for each coin you know I don’t know I
don’t know enough enough to say yes or
no either way I’m just kind of showing
you what’s going on lately
now theory em is another one we’re gonna
take a look at it another popular one
and each one of these coins by the way
kind of serves their own purpose and
point and you know they’re what they
call white papers the the business model
description sort of behind it can teach
you a little bit more about that so go
check out that research you like but
aetherium just in the past month has a
23% increase that’s a pretty good return
in the month I mean the week though
you’re down six I think it was this
morning yeah everything kind of went
back down pretty hard but you know maybe
that means it’s a good buying
opportunity for you so take a look at
that the one year you’re down
seventy-three percent in the last one
we’re gonna take a look at is the
Bitcoin cash Bitcoin cash has had a
phenomenal month at 74% I mean that’s
huge I’m not really sure what the
reasoning behind that is sometimes there
is one and sometimes there’s not you
know just just things are a little
different in this crypto market it’s
very wild west as they say it could be
kiss maybe as a large entity kind of
started accepting them for some reason I
know a buddy of mine who is into the
online gambling ditch says that he made
his transactions through Bitcoin cash so
quite quite quite possibly that things
like that are the reason why it’s been
very dominant this past month seventy
four percent is fantastic rate of return
this week though you know you’re down 13
so I mean think about it just last week
if you put in you know you’ve already
lost thirty percent of your investment
so you got to be really careful in this
man it’s it’s super volatile but you
know if you think that being down here
in this bottom
is a great opportunity for you then by
all means you know go for it you’re down
35% from the all-time I’m sorry I doubt
that wouldn’t be for my own guys that
would be from you know this time well
all-time yeah I mean yeah you’re now 35
percent from it’s in the beginning of
its inception put it that way because
when it came out I mean it kind of
actually have it pretty decent value but
again up 74 percent so I I do like that
that’s a little nice here’s your all’s
online excuse are 3500 but yeah coinbase
is definitely a great place to get
started there’s a number of ways that
you can actually put in your money into
coinbase you know you can do a direct
deposit through your bank account that
takes a little bit longer to get the
funds over or you can do a faster
transaction through like a Visa debit
card which there’s minimal minimal small
you know fees associated with that and
I’m not gonna go into those beads and
everything it’s not really worth you
know like losing sleep over because the
return on these investments is so great
that you know a 2% fee or something is
you know not much but again you know if
these do add up if you’re a pretty
active trader maybe that’s something to
pay attention pay attention to so again
down description below I’m gonna put
some links for you to check out coinbase
well that’s it guys I hope you found
some value in this video if you did be
sure to smash that like button hit the
subscribe button if you haven’t already
be sure to also hit the notification
bill so you can be notified each time we
upload a new episode
you want to check out more content you
can watch this video here this one down
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clicking my face right here
be sure to click the link down below for
coinbase if you want to get three $5 and
until next time take care
morning Blockchainers it’s us the new
kids on the blockchain ash and Lisa the
old ball and blockchain good morning
everybody welcome to today’s crypto and
blockchain show it’s another day on
planet earth how we all feeling out
there we had a look we woke up to some
green this morning yes we have had over
the last few days we’ve seen a
significant little boost coming in
there’s lots of reasons I’ve been
reading this morning as to why bye Nance
leaving the charge there with accepting
fear on-ramps with like Alibaba and also
the WeChat platform so more money coming
in there’s lots of good stuff going on
someone disappeared from the chance that
we notice who’s s veritasium oh yes I
can’t find very tasty among my
veritasium is marked all is zero hang on
I’m just looking seeing if it’s no
veritasium is back on the charts is
there and it’s gone up 49 it seemed to
disappear off the charts yesterday and
come back and it seems to have gone up
49 percent now obviously if you’re
watching veritasium this has been a
really interesting one we’ve been
following it since the very start we’ve
interviewed people like cliff high we’ve
interviewed Reggie we’ve followed the
whole thing really it’s difficult to
talk about the moment because Reggie’s
of the sleep you know he’s going with
through his court of shenanigans but
it’s going to be an interesting one
because there are a lot of people who’ve
said to us and I quote this shit coin is
going to 0 he’s a scammer and it’s worth
noting and then there are other people
who say this guy is changing the way
that finance works and there are so many
people out there that are worried about
it that they are essentially causing
massive thud paid campaigns to slur him
issues obviously only time will tell and
we’ve got to be honest we do own some
veritasium but we just bought some right
the stock isn’t interesting every small
amount well then mine were a zero
yesterday how many of you got 32
Lamborghini now we have been chatting
a lot of very intelligent people who are
not fans of blockchain we had a chat to
you’ll have seen on the show with a
chaplain that come hand in hand because
they’re intelligent well it depends
what’s going on in the market but my
question that I wanted to just talk
about with both of us now is yesterday
we filmed a very cool lady called Jemima
Kelly from a Financial Times Alphaville
and she hasn’t got a lot of good things
to say about blockchain
we filmed her for our documentary which
is very nearing completion as we said
IPO so achieved picture a lot last week
but we got slot with this lady and we
really wanted to get her commentary in
here we might actually show a little
clip from it actually a little later on
in this show because she had some really
good arguments as to why there are huge
problems in blockchain and crypto
generally but point being we’ve been
exposed recently to a lot of people who
are naysayers now you can have come out
of sitting with somebody very
intelligent after listening for two
hours about them telling you why it
won’t work and wait can’t work and why
there are problems and you do start
questioning yourself there is a real
sort of evangelical following in
cryptocurrency where everybody is almost
like taking the red pill or is it the
blue pill I don’t remember the red the
one that sends you down the rabbit hole
they’ve taken it they drunk and drank
the kool-aid that had the whole lot
we’ve had the kool-aid with all of it
but you kind of listen to these people
you start you do start thinking shit if
we back the right horse here I mean how
are you feeling a little well I have to
admit it is disheartening when you for
the last year and a half two years I’ve
been like talking to my friends
explaining about cryptocurrency I’m like
it’s great this is think of blockchain
and then every time they ask me now they
go what’s happened to that project well
he’s in court and it’s down to zero yeah
we work if we’re 97.3 down on that event
it’s not gambling it’s a show you it’s
not going to changing yeah yeah this
it’s disheartening but it is the more we
talk to people who have very valid
reasons why they think it isn’t gonna
last I always it doesn’t pose the the
kind of threat of fiat currency that’s
something real proponents say but I get
just to sway this one then someone will
turn around and go I’ve got this new ice
you know but like what but we
well not so much these days now I’m but
I mean we you know we’ll sit and we’ll
do a chat with Raja vir for an hour for
example or John McAfee or you know loads
of these people and you come away going
yeah you go blocked him and then you go
and sit with let Jemima yesterday or
David generalities become anything well
have we’ve been literally you know
wasting our time yes we will just have
to wait and see comment down below
people now for Christ’s sake
comment below I don’t know how many
times I’ve got to ask you all but we get
down there’s a few comments a couple of
people moaning about shit get down and
tell us get involved we’re putting a lot
of effort in here people let’s hear from
you let’s see some likes and subscribes
as well and let’s hear about what you
want to see we’ve you know we bring this
show every week we try and bring you
content that we think is gonna be
relevant as opposed to moon kid nonsense
and we hope that you enjoy it but if you
do please tell us because sometimes when
you’re in a bear market like this and
you’re making a show that’s a lot of
hard work like this you need a little
love we need a little bit of love don’t
we you know even the new kids need some
love so bring it on make it rain make it
rain on us now now other stuff on the
show this week you were going to ask me
but you haven’t so I’ll tell you well
because you haven’t given me a second to
interject because you’ve just literally
constantly been talking interject you
spoke to Tesco’s didn’t you for the
features we haven’t spoken to tells us
they’ve had a really interesting sort of
ride since their record-breaking ico at
the time so I wanted to get them in see
what’s going on they’ve been very busy
there’s lots been going on so there’s a
little clip from that in the show and
there might be a new guest for the news
roundup oh yes your events we’re gonna
bring in a new new kid because we’ve
been accused recently of not being that
young ah broken and again I will
reiterate that we’re not claiming to be
new kids and young kids is an ironic
play on the term and the fact that we’re
not kids so if you have missed that
you’re probably American but you can be
new and not be young there you go
I guess we should probably dive in and
bring that guest in and have a little
look at the old news brown
my dad can’t really claim he’s a new kid
anymore at his age so I’m here to bring
some move to the channel here’s the news
with crypto daily first up
bitwise Bitcoin etf denied by SEC
announced earlier today the United
States Securities and Exchange
Commission revealed that they have
denied the latest Bitcoin exchange
traded fund hopeful from bitwise asset
management theta open source network
partners with PewDiePie supported
streaming platform CT labs the open
source protocol purpose-built to power
the decentralized streaming network that
allows for vertical decentralized apps
has just announced its blockchain video
infrastructure protocol theta network
will soon be integrated into the
streaming platform D live according to
the press release published yesterday
theatre’s partnership with D live will
give users the chance to watch
peer-to-peer video replaying of all
video content and token rewards and last
up Twitter Bitcoin tipping service
tipping me launches on Android iOS
coming soon mobile phone users can now
smile at Twitter service for Bitcoin
micro payments tip in me is now
available on mobile devices the alpha
version of the service will be tested
this week for Android devices while
alpha testing for iOS devices is
underway a report says the service which
to launch as an app will have a mobile
lightning network enabled wallet that
will allow users to send tips in Bitcoin
on the Lightning Network thank you have
a good week and maybe see you soon this
week in blockchain banter were chatting
to a very informed lady Jemima Kelly who
is a reporter for Alphaville at the
Financial Times if you don’t follow her
column you should she’s got a very
irreverent look at the blockchain world
not the biggest fan of a lot of its
concepts but nonetheless a very informed
opinion in this clip we asked her what
she thought of about the supposed
scarcity of crypto currencies and
Bitcoin especially one of the reasons
that people compared Bitcoin to gold is
because of the finite nature supposedly
finite nature of Bitcoin
and so this idea that there’s only ever
going to be 21 million bitcoins has
attracted people including gold bugs the
problem with that idea is that if you
ask Craig Wright what bitcoin is he’ll
say that bitcoin sv is that is the real
Bitcoin if you ask Roger ver what he
thinks bitcoin is he’ll say Bitcoin cash
is a real Bitcoin so there are more than
one Bitcoin now and in fact that the
number of times that Bitcoin can fork
and form other kind of strands is is
it’s kind of infinite and so is the
number of copycat cryptocurrencies so in
a way Bitcoin has kind of become the
victim of its own success because there
are just thousands of of crypto
currencies out there and so this idea
that there is some finite nature it’s
just a nonsense there’s not because
there’s just there’s only one you know
thing that some people call Bitcoin but
not even everyone agrees on what that
bitcoin is and then there’s just
thousands of other crypto currencies
that do exactly the same thing
so in featured projects we haven’t
spoken to tezo’s and they’ve been on my
list of people I’d love to chat to they
obviously had one of the record-breaking
I SEOs back in 2017 and they’ve been
working away in the background to
deliver and we have Shawn with us today
are you there sure
yes I’m here welcome it’s good to have
you here and I guess just to start
things off could you maybe give our
viewers a brief rundown of what tezo’s
is in case any of them aren’t familiar
Tasos is a software project for a
blockchain technology on chin
coordination which is known for its self
amending technology so the idea of
tezo’s is to have minimal disruption to
the network effect and retain it instead
of the port based technologies that
we’ve seen in the past and obviously in
terms of third-generation blockchains we
you know we had Bitcoin first of all
then we had etherium now we’ve got this
there’s a bit of a race going on isn’t
there for kind of third year we’ve got
the kind of eos out there and Tron and
Cardno and there’s what do you think
it’s gonna take for its somebody to to
get a get ahead in this in this race by
and large it’s going to be the platform
that can capture the greatest network
effect which is what our angle is is
retention and growth of that instead of
breaking off into several projects and
build upon our platform and in terms of
kind of scalability has also been you
know another big battle that’s been
going on in blockchain since you know
way from the start
a lot of the third generation you know
we’re trying to beat that with with
various different approaches to
scalability what what stays OSes kind of
take on that Tesla’s is focusing on
layer 2 in terms of scaling and we have
some interesting projects going on with
such as marigold
I think scaling was a bit premature in
the markets where everybody was rushing
to do it but it our focus is more on
scaling on the governance aspect that
decision-making is more important and
that it takes the culmination of a
number of technologies in order to
actually grow a decentralized watching
losing the decentralized or without
centralizing the project so you can
speed up your storage but you might not
have the same throughput it you might
not have the same amount of finality and
you need to effectively remove these
bottlenecks along the way yeah because I
think that this is one thing a lot of
people we spoke to said there’s lots of
different quid pro quos or it’s like
okay you want to go faster we might have
to sacrifice some security aspects or
you want to go quicker this way you
might have to do so but and chatting two
guys from when we were chatting that
card on oh you know they were saying the
reason they’ve sort of taken the time
they’ve done is to kind of get these
foundations right and I know there’s
been a lot of kind of criticism of Eos
have been so centralized because of the
twenty one block producers and you know
is there what do you think is your kind
of killer app what’s your kind of what’s
your main horse in the race
I think we were a few things I think
what’s really come to light is dad
baking or network validation in the
style that we’ve implemented which is
actually a permissionless network if you
have a minimum of 8,000 xdz you can
stake up a network you don’t have to get
voted in so it doesn’t quite aligned
with say some of the other DPOs models
and right now we have about four hundred
and sixty Baker’s on the network so I
think baking and staking have become a a
pretty big hit and I see the adoption of
that across the board along with like
other projects I think what iOS said was
they sort of took it to one side which
is well maybe if we have a set number of
nodes we can speed this all up and it
certainly made it faster but I don’t
think the project remained it remains
anti fragile in the sense that you only
have to compromise 21 you know a
majority of the 21 nodes in order to to
make changes to the network and we keep
a philosophy closer to Bitcoin where we
want to be as central as as possible
yeah that makes sense because I mean
that’s ultimately the the dream from you
know the blockchain dream is
decentralization right so if you get
into position where your your product is
too centralized or has that ability to
be easily you know taken over then then
that’s you know that’s a real problem
it’s interesting actually every time I
speak to a block producer some say EOS
some say Chios some say a OS everyone to
speak to since they have a different
name for it so it England we tend to say
e OS but every time I speak somebody
it’s always a different name which is
quite funny and so what are your plans
for you know there’s obviously a lot
going on behind the scenes a lot of you
know blockchain companies at the moment
I think a lot of people who just view
the you know the numbers don’t realize
quite how much work is going on behind
the scenes and there are just you know
offices full of people getting stuff
done what’s next for tears awesome where
where do you want to see the end of this
year out right now the big focus is on
middleware Tooley to make our smart
contract languages more accessible so we
have Nicholson is a is a base language
and we’re building higher-level
languages on top of those with Smike
smart PI and Lego and those would be
more familiar to your average developer
and they’ll be able to hop in we’re also
working with truffle in order to build
out a suite of tools to really onboard
them for for those who don’t know I’m
the executive director of the Khazars
Commons which is community oriented I’m
here at the Tocqueville group office in
New York so tases is a a collaboration
project and we’re decentralized off Jane
which makes it confusing for most but we
are separate organizations and we’re all
trying to coordinate together so in
terms of our goals for at least my
organization tells us Commons my focus
is on the signalling aspect and our
governance platform teza segura to
really be able to display and signal
ahead of time for changes that are being
made on the network so right now we have
right now we have a vote going through
for the Babylon proposal and we should
know within about a week whether that’s
going to pass now it’s been obviously
the last two years have been very you
know we’ve been making this documentary
for the last three years charting since
the beginning of 2017 until
you know the end of 2019 and it’s been
an incredibly wild ride you know that in
2017 there was you know that buoyancy
and money and everything and then 2018
theory and prices crashing down and it’s
been very difficult for projects to
actually you know keep the runway that
they’ve needed not suddenly find that
their runway shrunk by 90 percent and
you know as an organization has it been
a difficult process most people have you
know found it quite difficult over the
last year especially to make sure that
goals are achieved but things are you
know managed in a way that works I think
we’ve had a different set of problems in
terms of funding in the sense that if
you have a large Treasury the way that
tezo’s does you have to deploy properly
and especially being decentralized up
that means there’s numerous
organizations that are putting in for
grants for various requests the other
issue is most of these projects are
going to be working on layer 2 which is
going to be the smart contract it’s
going to be the applications where as
we’re trying to amend layer 1 and that’s
going to that takes up a lot of time and
effort because as it’s evolving we’re
also introducing a roto we’re also
changing the underlying code that others
are using so it’s really tricky and you
could create like an educational course
which is one of the things we’ve done in
the past but now we have to refresh that
material to better reflect this the
current state of the protocol so it’s
been an interesting experiment always
plenty to to keep you occupied I would
imagine but I’m amazed at how quick this
year has gone as well we’re like
literally in October now literally about
to head into 2020 and before long we’ll
be calling John McAfee up to see if he’s
willing to do his bet live on television
or not but I guess it was gonna be some
interesting times ahead on that when we
actually filmed in last year in Malta
and had a quite an interesting kind of
our chat with him which is fun but just
the general kind of market view general
ad do you take much notice of where the
markets going or are you more interested
in the actual technologies I’m always
watching the market because I’m
fascinated by the macro
and so I feel like we’ve actually hit a
sort of a comfort comfortable area where
there’s not a great deal of downside in
that we know that these digital assets
are going to be very important for the
future but we’re still unsure of how the
chips are going to fall and with the
emerging you know defy economies and
staking taking over the what once was
the majority of proof-of-work projects
it’s interesting to see it all evolve
but I see more news leaning towards the
the future is bright so it it depends on
how long your time scale is yeah I mean
I think there was one of the things
we’re finding now is we’re going back
and reenter viewing all the people that
we interviewed in 2017 when you know a
lot of them are driving around in you
know garish Lamborghinis and it’s a very
different kind of mentality now but I
think a lot of people have said look we
still believe in this technology but we
realized now we were naive to think that
in two or three years time this was
going to change the world and this is
gonna take you know a decade plus in
order to do it do you do you sort of
share that sentiment yes that’s why you
know we fly economy and we take the
train because we know that we have not
pragmatic it historically open-source
software has not been well funded so
even with a large Treasury you have to
be very mindful the fact that we need to
invest in research and development
projects that are sometimes going to
take years so I’m hoping to see it
develop over the next few years into at
least the basis for a new emergent
internet and you know a really
functional currency system yeah well
it’s gonna be a long road for sure but
maybe we can get you back on somewhere
down the line and we can do a bit of a
I would love to great well look thanks
for taking the time to come on today and
obviously you know there’s plenty of
information about tasers out there but
if people do want to find out more
where’s the best place to actually get
the skinny the best place to go is
Tesla’s calm and you can also your
community website at
tezo’s Commons org great well thanks for
taking the time Sean and we’ll catch up
soon thank you that’s all folks thanks
for joining us again for another week of
blog tastic block crypto foolery another
fabulous week let us know what you want
on the show next week who you want us to
talk to we do value your opinion and you
being part of the new kids family also
we’ve been bringing the news to you via
crypto daily for the last sort of two
shows yes no is this a good thing is it
a bad thing do we care
comment down below and yeah until we see
you next week all you need to remember
is you’ve been chained you’ve been